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  • My 2 cents worth...

    I finally got a chance to take a look at this forum, as I had been urged to do by Jan & Patrick. I've still got an hour or two of reading to do to catch up - you guys have been busy! I thought I'd jump in with some random observations.


    My project had as its objective a quick, easy, cheap and lightweight sidescan sonar system for the starving shipwreck hunter. I usually work from a small boat (20 foot - I recently moved up from a 16 footer) and I often work solo, so the fish and cable had to be small and light. I don't have a laptop or a source of 120 VAC power on the boat, so I haven't explored any computer applications to sidescan. I have sought to use off-the-shelf components wherever possible to keep cost and complexity down.


    TOWFISH: The towfish is made from cheap, readily available & easily worked materials - PVC pipe and aluminum. The design objectives were simple - mount the transducer array so that it points in the right direction, and stabilize the fish so it tows smoothly. There are a lot of refinements that could be made - a more rounded nose cone, a more tapered tail cone, more streamlined tail fins - but the gains would be incremental. As it is, the fish "flies" smoothly, so I haven't changed much.


    TRANSDUCERS: A single transducer will give a useable sidescan picture. An array of transducers will result in a narrower horizontal beamwidth - the more transducers, the narrower the horizontal beamwidth and the higher the resolution. Using fishfinder transducers to construct an array is a bit of an inexact science. As I understand the construction of these transducers, the puck-type transducer consists of a disk-shaped ceramic element potted into a PVC cup with epoxy. I mounted the PVC faces of the transducers in the same plane, in hopes of keeping them exactly in phase. However, since the wavelength of sound in water at 200 kHz is a mere 7.5 mm, a difference of one millimeter in the positioning of the transducer element in the PVC cup would result in a 48 degree phase difference. For my next sonar, I will probably try to remove the ceramic transducer elements from their mounts (perhaps I could use acetone or MEK to dissolve the epoxy and PVC) and epoxy the bare elements directly onto a "window" of plexiglass or some other plastic. (This is where acoustic impedance matching, which I know nothing about, comes into play.)


    TRANSMITTER / RECEIVER / TRIGGER: While one could easily enough build a pulsed CW transmitter of the appropriate frequency, as well as a receiver and trigger pulse circuits, it would seem to me to be easier to use a fishfinder with the highest possible output power and merely tap into its trigger pulse circuit and into its receiver after a stage or two of amplification, just before it goes through any signal processing. You could then digitize it for input ot your custom computerized application.


    Well, I should get back to reading the last two week's worth of messages you guys have been sending, and try to get up to speed with your project.


    Dan


  • #2
    Re: My 2 cents worth...

    Dan,


    Can you ellaborate on the transducer array, number of transducers and keeping the fase in sync.


    Perhaps you can give us webpages or books where the theory is described ?


    I would like to know more about this as I am designing with 4 transducers... but am not all that sure why... have to admit that this sounds stupid but it is a fact. :-)


    Regards, Jan


    P.s. Would buying the piezo elements themself not be cheaper that buying the whole transducer ?


    See Channel Industries link on main page for link for a firm that sells them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My 2 cents worth...

      Jan,Why a sidescan sonar transducer is long and narrow:The beam width of a circular transducer is inversely proportional to its diameter - a 20° transducer is less than an inch in diameter, while an 8° transducer is about 2 inches. A sidescan transducer is narrow vertically, so it has a wide beam width, enabling it to "see" up and down slopes. It is long horizontally, so the vertical beamwidth is narrow, for better resolution. The result of this is a fan-shaped beam. By using a long horizontal array of transducers, you are simulating a long rectangular beam giving a similar beam pattern.Buying piezo elements might be cheaper, but the fishfinder manufacturers are buying them in vast quantities and probably getting a much better price.Most of this info is from the sonar chapter in the Electronic Engineer's Handbook - see my web page for this and other references.

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      • #4
        Re: My 2 cents worth...

        Dan,


        In the early stages of the development of your fish, did you use 2 transducers? If so, was there a notable difference between the two and the four you presently have?


        Do you think you would gain any more by adding an additional two for a total of six transducers?


        Thanks,


        Patrick

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My 2 cents worth...

          Dan,


          Would you reccomend the book "Introduction to the Theory and Design of Sonar Transducers" you list at your webpage ?


          The title looks exactly what I am looking for but I would like some advice first.


          Regards Jan.

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          • #6
            Re: My 2 cents worth...

            Found a very nice paper on link shown below.


            It explains a lot about how transducers should be built and why they have to be build out of several transducers.


            Regards, Jan

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            • #7
              Link question

              Your link did not show up. Did you give it a "Link Title" as well as the URL?


              Also, a query for any forum users: I have code that should "remember" your name & email (using a cookie) so you don't have to re-enter it all the time. (You have to have cookies enabled in your browser.) Is it working correctly? Please drop me an email with a yea or nay.


              - Carl

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              • #8
                Re: Link question

                oops... no title was given.


                Ok, tried link again


                Will enable cookies at home, but at work (hehe) it works great.


                regards, Jan

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                • #9
                  Re: My 2 cents worth...

                  Jan,


                  I haven't read "Introduction to the Theory and Design of Sonar Transducers" myself, so I really can't comment on its usefulness.


                  Dan

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                  • #10
                    Re: My 2 cents worth...

                    Parick,


                    I went directly from a single transducer to an array of 4. More transducers would make a narrower fan beam. Possible negatives: more expense, greater possibility of phase problems, impedance mismatch.


                    Dan

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