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XP deus coil modification

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  • XP deus coil modification

    Hi all.
    I hope some could help me with this idea.. I know that its a little crazy and exspensive.
    The idea is makeing a small XP deus coil.
    How ! Open up a working Deus coil and separate the electronic from the search coil RX and TX.
    Deusfan.fr open one coil some years ago.. http://xpdeusfan.free.fr/deusinside/
    Find the connection from the 17.6 khz RX/TX. Measure the RX / TX at the Deus coil.
    Buy or make a 17-18 khz small coil, like the XP Goldmaxx 5x10" or SEF 5x8" or similar...there is close to same mH and resonans Freq. Maybee fine tune with a small capacity (18khz down to 17.6 khz)
    Use coil cable and put the electronic in a small plastic box up at the stem close to the handle.

    What would you experts think of this idea.. Could this work, If a small coil could Be found or maked.
    Thanks.


    Henrik

  • #2
    You'd think having all the circuitry in the middle of your coil would mess up your signal.

    Especially the relays!!!! Are you sure it isn't a joke?

    Comment


    • #3
      Its no joke... Two reason to move the electronic.. 1. If its a allready wired coil there would used, why then make problems with the electronic down... 2. Its easyer to finetune / adjust with a wired search coil.
      No joke.. There is situations where a smaller coil (that the 9") could Be a help. Like in Very Very Heavy infested iron areas and in places with allmust no space to swing.
      Thanks.

      Comment


      • #4
        I could use smaller coil with my Deus, some 4-6", on some of the places i am usually searching at.
        Yet i wouldn't dare to open existing Deus coil because there is always good chance to bust it.
        Much smarter way is to contact Mr. Alain Loube and suggest him to start production of such coils.
        I am slowly turning to prospecting in last several months and smaller coil would be very welcome for such purposes.
        Ok, let this topic become public appeal to Mr. Alain for such move!
        Let's vote, i am in
        !

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Ivconic.. Allways nice to know that I'm not alone.
          Open some other coils before, with and with out electronic.. It can Be done with a lot of patience.
          My wrote can count for two.. Got a good friend with same ask.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think this can be done. Im unclear if the performance would be as good as when all integral. S

            Comment


            • #7
              You could Be right Golfnut.. The cable could lose some sencitivity.. If that was your Thoughts !
              but on the other hand, a XP deus coil got Winding to 4-8 and 12 khz allso, and that can not help to get a high peak...
              Just that issue could help to preform okay, using a coil made only for 18 khz (17.6 khz).
              I've just wonder why none had tryed something like this before, Big coil or Very small coil. Maybee because its a exspensive exsperiment. !

              Comment


              • #8
                Indeed it is expensive experiment with high percentage of chances to completely fail.
                I opened coil for Gmaxx once and it was hard and nerving labor, lasting several hours.
                There are few passive components inside, submerged in hardest epoxy i've seen so far!
                Some of the wires were also "floating around" in epoxy and it is almost certain bust when try to mechanically remove epoxy.
                So unless you try some "chemical" method to dissolve it; you better don't start with no "mechanical" methods at all.
                On other hand, once solved and demystified Deus coil later would not be that hard to reproduce even if it has separate windings for several frequencies.
                I don't have conditions to try "chemical" methods and that's why i would not dare to try to open it "mechanically".
                I would rather point this to legal demand for such coils at manufacturer
                .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks again.. All information to help is so much Welcome.
                  you right If XP had plans to make a smaller coil, this project is stupid.. But everyone knows that XP isn't the fastest firm in the World, and If they ever would think of this, it properly will take 1-2-3 years to Be finish. Just found a 11x13" second hand coil 130£. The project is started.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My feeling is the TX coil is wound bifilar, and either one winding, or both in series are used, switched by a relay. Switching in a different tuning capacitor eg. doubling its value would give intermediate frequencies. If you work out the L, R and Q-factor for this bifilar coil + parallel capacitor, it looks sensible.

                    To help reverse engineer the coil, I recommend ACCURATELY measuring the operating frequency (eg. with sniffer coil+DFM) in the 4 different settings. This could give a clue to how L and C are determined.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah .. You are properly spot on.
                      But I think that L1-L2-L3-L4 can't be with the same Q, why !
                      The Freq. a the display is 17.606 / 11.655 / 7.813 / 4.0 khz. (I can't see the relay can change Capacity to each L to tweak a Freq., so all L1 to L4 together must be like 3.9 and not 4.0 khz) But this is a little guesswork until it has been opened up and been measured.
                      Thanks.
                      Henrik

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Interesting. When I see the 1.5:1 ratio, I think of a coil wound trifilar (three identical wires together). Using two windings in series, or all three in series, gives the 1.5:1 frequency ratio, while maintaining the same Q factor. This would be the 17.606 and 11.655 freqs. Increase the capacitor by a factor of 2.25 gives the factor of 1.5 drop to 7.813, with a drop of Q-factor. I don't know how they would get decent Q at the 4KHz setting, I suppose quadrifilar windings and a load of extra C might do it, but I don't think this is relevant to you, as you only want the 18/12 frequencies.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have to open up the coil, to see the wireing.. I Can't figur it out.
                          Thanks Skippy. I'll Be back.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi again.

                            The coil was easy to open up... Only glued with some kind af silicone.
                            THERE IS ONLY 1. RX and 1. TX in the search coil... The relay must change the capacity.
                            Picture shows what I found out so fare...
                            It was what I throught, this is not made to give a high peak, since the L stays and its changing the C.. Or what do you think ?
                            The 14.9 mH RX side and the 10.4 mH TX side, seem to me a little high, and to find resonans with that at 12-18 khz, it must then be with low capacity. I Allways learned that L and C close to the same value, gives the best results..

                            Any help would be nice.

                            Thanks
                            Henrik.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Good work Henrikras. Thank you.

                              Comment

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