Vallon VMH3CS Mine Detector

[MTammet]

If you look carefully you will see that TH'r's quote is from the 1.19 later version of the VMH3CS manual, which states 'Mode mineral adapts the detector to the magnetic properties of the soil'. Your earlier manual does say 'metallic', but this is not a correct description for the iron minerals found in soil, rock, or earthenware ceramics. Maybe the translation from German to English was the problem, but has subsequently been corrected.

Having been involved in the past with manuals for military and police equipment, the fact that it states that the mineral mode should only be used if absolutely necessary is because most operators would struggle in live field conditions to set up the GB accurately. Basically what they want is a 'switch on and go' detector with no critical adjustments. In the Afghan sand, probably all that was needed is normal mode and operators would be discouraged from using anything but this mode, which could then result in limitations on certain targets. Cambodia, Laos, and other places, have soil with magnetic properties and mines are mostly cleared by humanitarian demining operatives who are properly trained and have more time than soldiers in a war zone. Mineral mode would be essential in those areas as many of the reports indicate.

Eric.

The only problem Vallon had in Afganistan was emi from jammers.

Best
Mihkel

[Ferric Toes]

Let us be correct - to quote correctly , without interpretations . This mine post contains information between the rows ? here's a precise quote , - 3.3.3 Important Notes , from the instruction of Vallon : http://www.vallon.de/download/Vertri..._soft_1_14.pdf
,,NOTE
The program ,,mineral'' adapts the detector to the metallic properties of the
soil. Mines containing metal components with the same electromagnetic
features may be overlooked.
Use program ,,mineral'' only if absolutely necessary. ''
Happy Holiday of All Women, Happy March 8^th . I wish health and happiness .With best wishes , to make your dreams come true . Make your thoughts come true .

If you look carefully you will see that TH'r's quote is from the 1.19 later version of the VMH3CS manual, which states 'Mode mineral adapts the detector to the magnetic properties of the soil'. Your earlier manual does say 'metallic', but this is not a correct description for the iron minerals found in soil, rock, or earthenware ceramics. Maybe the translation from German to English was the problem, but has subsequently been corrected.

Having been involved in the past with manuals for military and police equipment, the fact that it states that the mineral mode should only be used if absolutely necessary is because most operators would struggle in live field conditions to set up the GB accurately. Basically what they want is a 'switch on and go' detector with no critical adjustments. In the Afghan sand, probably all that was needed is normal mode and operators would be discouraged from using anything but this mode, which could then result in limitations on certain targets. Cambodia, Laos, and other places, have soil with magnetic properties and mines are mostly cleared by humanitarian demining operatives who are properly trained and have more time than soldiers in a war zone. Mineral mode would be essential in those areas as many of the reports indicate.

Eric.

[kingswood]

I dont think that ground balancing out some targets with similar properties is only a Vallon issue....My GPZ7000 will, as will my old GP3000....

[Riss]

Riss; This is a quote from the 1.19 operation manual Section 6.3.3 "Program mineral adapts the detector to the magnetic properties of the soil. Targets with similar properties may be overlooked."

Let us be correct - to quote correctly , without interpretations . This mine post contains information between the rows ? here's a precise quote , - 3.3.3 Important Notes , from the instruction of Vallon : http://www.vallon.de/download/Vertri..._soft_1_14.pdf
,,NOTE
The program ,,mineral'' adapts the detector to the metallic properties of the
soil. Mines containing metal components with the same electromagnetic
features may be overlooked.
Use program ,,mineral'' only if absolutely necessary. ''
Happy Holiday of All Women, Happy March 8^th . I wish health and happiness .With best wishes , to make your dreams come true . Make your thoughts come true .

[Ferric Toes]

Just to test my understanding.

If I only operate in "Normal" mode I will never suffer from the effects of GB Holes?

Pete

No holes in 'normal' mode; only the ones you dig.

Eric.

[Rocketdemon]

Just to test my understanding.

If I only operate in "Normal" mode I will never suffer from the effects of GB Holes?

Pete

[waltr]

Awesome work Eric and well done Green for the thought process

Yes, good work and I enjoy reading all posts by you guys.

The curves Eric posted are expected. The three metal target look to be Exp^(-t/Tau) whereas the Ironstone looks to be -1/t.
If plotted on a Log/Lin and log/log graph this should be obvious.

Very interesting that even this Vallon detector has a GB hole.

[kingswood]

Awesome work Eric and well done Green for the thought process

[Ferric Toes]

Yes, Green was correct. The loss in range is due to the GB 'hole' in the response. In the attached plot, B (blue trace) is Australian ironstone. This will have a similar decay to earthenware pottery, volcanic basalt, iron mineralised soil, etc,etc. The only major difference will be the amplitude. For convenience all amplitudes were set at 20uS to the same starting level. One can see that the Lev (curve C) is close to the ironstone decay and at one point crosses it. If GB sampling was taken here then the 1 Lev coin would not be detected at any range. I have no information about the method of GB used in the VMH3CS or the timing of GB and signal samples, so cannot comment further.

For comparison, curve A is a US Nickel and D is a UK 1 pound, which has a similar construction to the Lev except the diameter is slightly smaller but thickness is a bit greater. For objects such as A and D whose amplitudes, either positive or negative which are well clear of the ironstone trace will not suffer significant loss in range. Previously I had not noticed a 'hole' in the Vallon's performance and that must be the reason for the severe loss in range on the 1 Lev coin. Perhaps Riss will test other more, or less, conductive coins to compare performance. Note that the ironstone decay starts fast, but slows down with time so that even at 200uS the signal level still has not reached the zero. I will measure the actual detection ranges in 'normal' and 'mineral' for the 1 Lev in due course. Thanks to Riss for bringing this matter up, and Green for his post, as otherwise I might never have come across the hole in the response. .

Eric.

PS the 1 pound coin should be trace D, not a second B.

[MTammet]

Gladly I am not after 1 lev coins.

[TH'r]

Eric , ,,When the facts speak , and the gods are silent '' . Let us not enter into unnecessary verbal disputes , similar to the disputes of the priests from the Middle Ages , about their favorite question ,, how much the devil they can to accommodate on the top of a needle ? . Logically look , not only me - all expect after the coin of 1 lev is in your hand , then make a short video - switch Vallon to normal mode , you measure what maximum distance is registered this coin in the air . Then turn on the Mineral mode , eliminate piece of ceramics or brick , after passing the procedure in point 3.3.1 Automatic Fine Adaptation to Mineralized Soil (http://www.vallon.de/download/Vertri..._soft_1_14.pdf ) . Adjust Vallon to ceramics . Then re-measure the response distance . Again air test . This is also valid in the soil - almost the same ! It is so easy! And very convincing ! Everyone will applaud you , and he will be glad , that I will stop writing in your topic , and this way to spot ( stain ) the cloudless atmosphere and ruin the optimistic spirit !You will be very persuasive , if with a file make some dust from the brick , and demonstrate , that this dust sticks to a neodymium magnet . Well-baked Roman brick for example . You have . Bulgaria and U.K. are former Roman provinces . Not to act as Bulgarian politicians which some of the journalists' questions give the following answer : ,, thank you for the question , ask the next question ? .So far the only thing I have achieved , is to greatly improve the interest to this topic . #1681 , 01-24-2019, 11:04 AM -for the first time I wrote in this topic. I recorded the number of visits at that moment - it was 73,131 . I'm even not sure about that- this may be the number at my third or fourth post .

Riss; This is a quote from the 1.19 operation manual Section 6.3.3 "Program mineral adapts the detector to the magnetic properties of the soil. Targets with similar properties may be overlooked."

[Riss]

[Ferric Toes]

Wondering if 1 lev coin has fallen in PI hole?

Hi Green, That is a possibility and I have the coin now and will test it tomorrow. I will also plot its decay curve and see if it comes close to that of iron mineralised rock. Luckily, I haven't packed my tester away yet, prior to moving.

Eric.

[green]

Wondering if 1 lev coin has fallen in PI hole?

[Riss]

I too have a 1 Lev coin that will arrive this week from ebay, Since I can detect a 0.24gm flat gold nugget through a 40mm thick piece of Australian iron mineralised rock in 'mineral mode', I am quite confident that the Vallon will detect the 1 Lev at considerable range in this mode with the standard coil. The Vallon has been tested for detection range in highly mineralised soils in Cambodia and Laos by professional bodies working with humanitarian demining organisations. It came out as one of the best detectors in these conditions. Australian soil and rock is much worse than anything yet tested; maybe Bulgarian ground is worse still. If I can get a 10gm sample, I can test for magnetic susceptibility and viscosity. True scientific methods that are repeatable.

Eric.

Eric , ,,When the facts speak , and the gods are silent '' . Let us not enter into unnecessary verbal disputes , similar to the disputes of the priests from the Middle Ages , about their favorite question ,, how much the devil they can to accommodate on the top of a needle ? . Logically look , not only me - all expect after the coin of 1 lev is in your hand , then make a short video - switch Vallon to normal mode , you measure what maximum distance is registered this coin in the air . Then turn on the Mineral mode , eliminate piece of ceramics or brick , after passing the procedure in point 3.3.1 Automatic Fine Adaptation to Mineralized Soil (http://www.vallon.de/download/Vertri..._soft_1_14.pdf ) . Adjust Vallon to ceramics . Then re-measure the response distance . Again air test . This is also valid in the soil - almost the same ! It is so easy! And very convincing ! Everyone will applaud you , and he will be glad , that I will stop writing in your topic , and this way to spot ( stain ) the cloudless atmosphere and ruin the optimistic spirit !You will be very persuasive , if with a file make some dust from the brick , and demonstrate , that this dust sticks to a neodymium magnet . Well-baked Roman brick for example . You have . Bulgaria and U.K. are former Roman provinces . Not to act as Bulgarian politicians which some of the journalists' questions give the following answer : ,, thank you for the question , ask the next question ? .So far the only thing I have achieved , is to greatly improve the interest to this topic . #1681 , 01-24-2019, 11:04 AM -for the first time I wrote in this topic. I recorded the number of visits at that moment - it was 73,131 . I'm even not sure about that- this may be the number at my third or fourth post .