Patent Restrictions?

[Aziz]

None that I know of. I've already demonstrated I don't know how to read a patent
I was just throwing it out there as another possible option.

Re Autosave, that's pretty much to be expected since its there to preserve your message in case your machine crashes which is most reliably done on an independent machine. It most probably doesn't see human eyes unless its actually posted however I guess your right to point out that its possible. Carl could have a special version of V-bulletin that allows him to read people messages as they are typed. Spooky. It would certainly be nice to have a disable feature.

Midas

I want to test something... just to trigger the red alert state:

-----------------example-----------------
I have the QED sources and I will press the "red button"... HEHEHEHE...
I have the QED sources and I will press the "red button"... HEHEHEHE...
I have the QED sources and I will press the "red button"... HEHEHEHE...
I have the QED sources and I will press the "red button"... HEHEHEHE...
I have the QED sources and I will press the "red button"... HEHEHEHE...
I have the QED sources and I will press the "red button"... HEHEHEHE...
-----------------example-----------------

(now waiting to the auto-save function to alert Carl, George and Whites)...
Ok, it is auto-saved... they should know it....
<beeeeep> <beeeeep> <beeeeep> <beeeeep> <beeeeep>

Just waiting one more auto-save...
Ok, it is sent...

I could have deleted the above edited example joke text and and could have edited a new text and posted it ...
but the former text is already sent to geotech...

You know where the problem is?
Don't type anything what you don't want to be sent there...
This example demonstrates the issue...

Aziz

[IBGold]

I believe due to health and family reasons because of Minelab's lawyers constant harassment of him BW has capitulated and signed to their demands which I believe were probably to never allow the commercialisation of the patented design never build a metal detector which incorporates ground balance and to indemnify certain members of Minelab if in fact there is an investigation of their dealings by ASIC just my thoughts all I can say it is very dirty pool from a company that many people trusted just goes to show are the rumors I hear from the USA true are Minelab negotiating for Whites if so that will be another independent gone.

Regards, Ian.

[Carl-NC]

No, I don't. I hadn't even thought about the auto-save feature auto-uploading as you type. Now, off to find an auto-save snooper!

[Midas]

Yup, what violation?

What kind of IP "belongs" to ML?
Aziz

--------off-topic urgent warning to everyone -------
The auto-save function of geotech is transmitting the whole post to the geotech server while you edit your text. When "Auto-saved" message appears at the bottom/right, the current edit content will be sent.

Better to use a seperate editor and put the text into the edit box.
--------off-topic urgent warning to everyone -------

None that I know of. I've already demonstrated I don't know how to read a patent
I was just throwing it out there as another possible option.

Re Autosave, that's pretty much to be expected since its there to preserve your message in case your machine crashes which is most reliably done on an independent machine. It most probably doesn't see human eyes unless its actually posted however I guess your right to point out that its possible. Carl could have a special version of V-bulletin that allows him to read people messages as they are typed. Spooky. It would certainly be nice to have a disable feature.

Midas

[Aziz]

Yup, what violation?

What kind of IP "belongs" to ML?
Aziz

--------off-topic urgent warning to everyone -------
The auto-save function of geotech is transmitting the whole post to the geotech server while you edit your text. When "Auto-saved" message appears at the bottom/right, the current edit content will be sent.

Better to use a seperate editor and put the text into the edit box.
--------off-topic urgent warning to everyone -------

Here is the proof: (got it from the firewall log info)

0000:  00 1A 4F C7 B7 36 00 07 : 0F D9 CF 9C 08 00 45 00 | ..O..6........E.
0010:  03 B3 D0 95 40 00 40 06 : 73 4D C0 A8 02 78 AE 84 | ....@[email protected]..
0020:  81 BD 06 27 00 50 F4 63 : 1B D5 4F C9 D6 DB 50 18 | ...'.P.c..O...P.
0030:  FF FF 6E 73 00 00 64 6F : 3D 61 75 74 6F 73 61 76 | ..ns..do=autosav
0040:  65 26 73 65 63 75 72 69 : 74 79 74 6F 6B 65 6E 3D | e&securitytoken=
0050:  31 33 36 30 33 38 31 31 : 36 33 2D 61 63 39 36 30 | 1360381163-ac960
0060:  36 30 39 33 63 62 33 33 : 33 36 30 61 37 39 62 38 | 6093cb33360a79b8
0070:  34 33 30 65 61 30 31 38 : 33 61 34 33 64 65 35 63 | 430ea0183a43de5c
0080:  39 35 32 26 70 6F 73 74 : 68 61 73 68 3D 61 35 32 | 952&posthash=a52
0090:  36 36 39 39 61 63 66 30 : 36 37 32 62 61 36 61 63 | 6699acf0672ba6ac
00A0:  37 64 38 38 34 37 39 66 : 65 66 35 63 34 26 70 6F | 7d88479fef5c4&po
00B0:  73 74 73 74 61 72 74 74 : 69 6D 65 3D 31 33 36 30 | ststarttime=1360
00C0:  33 38 31 31 36 33 26 61 : 6A 61 78 3D 31 26 26 70 | 381163&ajax=1&&p
00D0:  61 67 65 74 65 78 74 3D : 59 75 70 25 32 43 25 32 | agetext=Yup%2C%2
00E0:  30 77 68 61 74 25 32 30 : 76 69 6F 6C 61 74 69 6F | 0what%20violatio
00F0:  6E 25 33 46 25 33 43 42 : 52 25 33 45 25 33 43 42 | n%3F%3CBR%3E%3CB
0100:  52 25 33 45 57 68 61 74 : 25 32 30 6B 69 6E 64 25 | R%3EWhat%20kind%
0110:  32 30 6F 66 25 32 30 49 : 50 25 32 30 25 32 32 62 | 20of%20IP%20%22b
0120:  65 6C 6F 6E 67 73 25 32 : 32 25 32 30 74 6F 25 32 | elongs%22%20to%2
0130:  30 4D 4C 25 33 46 25 33 : 43 42 52 25 33 45 41 7A | 0ML%3F%3CBR%3EAz
0140:  69 7A 25 33 43 42 52 25 : 33 45 25 33 43 42 52 25 | iz%3CBR%3E%3CBR%
0150:  33 45 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D : 2D 2D 6F 66 66 2D 74 6F | 3E--------off-to
0160:  70 69 63 25 32 30 75 72 : 67 65 6E 74 25 32 30 77 | pic%20urgent%20w
0170:  61 72 6E 69 6E 67 25 32 : 30 74 6F 25 32 30 65 76 | arning%20to%20ev
0180:  65 72 79 6F 6E 65 25 32 : 30 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D | eryone%20-------
0190:  25 33 43 42 52 25 33 45 : 54 68 65 25 32 30 61 75 | %3CBR%3EThe%20au
01A0:  74 6F 2D 73 61 76 65 25 : 32 30 66 75 6E 63 74 69 | to-save%20functi
01B0:  6F 6E 25 32 30 6F 66 25 : 32 30 67 65 6F 74 65 63 | on%20of%20geotec
01C0:  68 25 32 30 69 73 25 32 : 30 74 72 61 6E 73 6D 69 | h%20is%20transmi
01D0:  74 74 69 6E 67 25 32 30 : 74 68 65 25 32 30 77 68 | tting%20the%20wh
01E0:  6F 6C 65 25 32 30 70 6F : 73 74 25 32 30 74 6F 25 | ole%20post%20to%
01F0:  32 30 74 68 65 25 32 30 : 67 65 6F 74 65 63 68 25 | 20the%20geotech%
0200:  32 30 73 65 72 76 65 72 : 25 32 30 77 68 69 6C 65 | 20server%20while
0210:  25 32 30 79 6F 75 25 32 : 30 65 64 69 74 25 32 30 | %20you%20edit%20
0220:  79 6F 75 72 25 32 30 74 : 65 78 74 2E 25 32 30 57 | your%20text.%20W
0230:  68 65 6E 25 32 30 25 32 : 32 41 75 74 6F 2D 73 61 | hen%20%22Auto-sa
0240:  76 65 64 25 32 32 25 32 : 30 6D 65 73 73 61 67 65 | ved%22%20message
0250:  25 32 30 61 70 70 65 61 : 72 73 25 32 30 61 74 25 | %20appears%20at%
0260:  32 30 74 68 65 25 32 30 : 62 6F 74 74 6F 6D 2F 72 | 20the%20bottom/r
0270:  69 67 68 74 25 32 43 25 : 32 30 74 68 65 25 32 30 | ight%2C%20the%20
0280:  63 75 72 72 65 6E 74 25 : 32 30 65 64 69 74 25 32 | current%20edit%2
0290:  30 63 6F 6E 74 65 6E 74 : 25 32 30 77 69 6C 6C 25 | 0content%20will%
02A0:  32 30 62 65 25 32 30 73 : 65 6E 64 2E 25 33 43 42 | 20be%20send.%3CB
02B0:  52 25 33 45 25 33 43 42 : 52 25 33 45 42 65 74 74 | R%3E%3CBR%3EBett
02C0:  65 72 25 32 30 74 6F 25 : 32 30 75 73 65 25 32 30 | er%20to%20use%20
02D0:  61 25 32 30 73 65 70 65 : 72 61 74 65 25 32 30 65 | a%20seperate%20e
02E0:  64 69 74 6F 72 25 32 30 : 61 6E 64 25 32 30 70 75 | ditor%20and%20pu
02F0:  74 25 32 30 74 68 65 25 : 32 30 74 65 78 74 25 32 | t%20the%20text%2
0300:  30 69 6E 74 6F 25 32 30 : 74 68 65 25 32 30 65 64 | 0into%20the%20ed
0310:  69 74 25 32 30 62 6F 78 : 2E 25 33 43 42 52 25 33 | it%20box.%3CBR%3
0320:  45 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D : 2D 6F 66 66 2D 74 6F 70 | E--------off-top
0330:  69 63 25 32 30 75 72 67 : 65 6E 74 25 32 30 77 61 | ic%20urgent%20wa
0340:  72 6E 69 6E 67 25 32 30 : 74 6F 25 32 30 65 76 65 | rning%20to%20eve
0350:  72 79 6F 6E 65 25 32 30 : 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D 2D 25 | ryone%20-------%
0360:  33 43 42 52 25 33 45 26 : 74 69 74 6C 65 3D 26 63 | 3CBR%3E&title=&c
0370:  6F 6E 74 65 6E 74 74 79 : 70 65 69 64 3D 76 42 46 | ontenttypeid=vBF
0380:  6F 72 75 6D 5F 50 6F 73 : 74 26 63 6F 6E 74 65 6E | orum_Post&conten
0390:  74 69 64 3D 30 26 77 79 : 73 69 77 79 67 3D 31 26 | tid=0&wysiwyg=1&
03A0:  70 61 72 73 65 74 79 70 : 65 3D 35 26 70 61 72 65 | parsetype=5&pare
03B0:  6E 74 63 6F 6E 74 65 6E : 74 69 64 3D 32 30 31 33 | ntcontentid=2013
03C0:  39 31 61 37 32 31 38 63 : 36 39 62 64 64 66 73    | 91a7218c69bddfs

[dougAEGPF]

They've found a violation but decided to take no further action at this time.

What violation?
dougAEGPF

[Midas]

Presumably then ...
1, They found nothing to worry about during the disclosure process.
2. They've done a private deal to acquire the IP.
3. They found a patent infringement, and BW has agreed to kill the QED.

Any other possibilities?

They've found a violation but decided to take no further action at this time. Deciding to wait until some substantial sales have been made so they can claim actual damages and justify the cost of further litigation.

[Davor]

Sounds quite inconclusive. I've browsed a few forums for any comments, but there is only silence. Seem as if everyone is still confused. To me it sounds as if BW goes scot free.

About UF trolling ... Messing with apples vs. pears false dilemma is just dumb. Inventors and big companies are as similar as cars and dogs.

Motives and outcome of patenting are also very dissimilar for inventors and companies.

The whole patenting/non-patenting dilemma is false because there are intellectual property protection options beside patents. Unfortunately clever people often get caught in the patenting net and lose everything. Patents are the only way you can actually lose your intellectual property.

IMHO copyright works far better for an inventor, as copyright deals mostly with the idea (unique feature of an inventor), while patents occasionally work fine for heavily lawyered companies, and that deal mostly with judicial/idea-less stuff.


UF, just stop posing as a big shunter. Just stop it! It is beyond you.

[Qiaozhi]

BTW, law suit re QED:

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/SAD226/2012/actions#;javascript<strong></strong>:void(0);

07-Feb-2013

9:45

Directions

Justice Besanko

Court No. 7 Level 7

Finalised - Discontinued/Withdrawn

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/SAD226/2012/3648666/event/27141778/document/314073

I'm curious, whether what will happen in the future.
Aziz

Presumably then ...
1, They found nothing to worry about during the disclosure process.
2. They've done a private deal to acquire the IP.
3. They found a patent infringement, and BW has agreed to kill the QED.

Any other possibilities?

[Aziz]

BTW, law suit re QED:

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Fe...strong>:void(0);

07-Feb-2013

9:45

Directions

Justice Besanko

Court No. 7 Level 7

Finalised - Discontinued/Withdrawn

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/SAD226/2012/3648666/event/27141778/document/314073

I'm curious, whether what will happen in the future.
Aziz

[Aziz]

...Best to put as much as possible in firmware, with extra copy protection.

And then you get sued to show your source code!
*LOL*
Aziz

[Carl-NC]

White paint & black tar are dissolvable, a little nitric acid will decap the chips and you can read the mfgr's ID right off the silicon. Best to put as much as possible in firmware, with extra copy protection.

[Aziz]

Back to the roots:
White paint, black tar, grinding off the labels, hiding the IP in the protected software part, ...

That will protect someone's IP far better than any patent.
*LOL*
Aziz

[UrbanFox]

And, no UF, patents don't make the product, nor do they necessarily protect investments. If you want a cheap GPX, China will sell you one.

Patents may not make the product, but they can and do give an inventor the ability to give a level of protection to his design. I guess company A, developing in an R&D environment at significant cost, does not want to give competitor B a free ride on company A's R&D results. I believe patents form part of a company's IP management.

Patents may not necessarily protect the ongoing value of my detector purchase, but I believe they certainly help. It is also interesting that corporate directors who fail in their fiscal duty to protect the invented or innovative IP of a company can be held liable. Are patents perceived to be of any real monetary value? In June 2011, Nortel Network Corp, who entered bankruptcy in 2009, auctioned it's patent portfolio in 2011 for $4.5 billion, or $1.5 billion more than the total value of all other company assets.

The cheap Chinese copies of the GPX4500 and GPX5000 that I am aware of are not duplicating the Minelab electronics. The coil on at least some of these Chinese made Minelab copies does not work on a Minelab GPX series detector, and I understand at least some of the cheap Chinese Minelab GPX series copies are not PI, they are using VLF.

If Whites believed they had discovered and were able to develop innovation that gave them a detector with a significant performance advantage over their opposition, would Whites look very seriously at the option to patent their innovation as part of their IP protection risk management strategy? If they don't patent and next week another company does patent the same, then Whites could find themselves excluded from using their own innovative design.

[dougAEGPF]

Well & good, but you deftly avoided the question. If I invent a new way to do GB that solves problems with current GB methods, is that new method patentable? Put another way, is it still possible to patent the wheel? Or the Tweel?

For a US patent probably yes! With smart patent attorney's it seems that you can get a US patent on almost anything even if its all prior art! In other patents jurisdictions it may different!
dougAEGPF