ML patent Application

[UrbanFox]

The TDI (Oz version) also delivers the goods in mineralised Oz ground and can also give an indication of the TC of the detected object something ML can't do with a mono coil! and it costs less than 1/2 the price of a 5000! The TDI also has better EMI immunity!
dougAEGPF

Yes Doug, but as you stated yourself.......from your defunct forum.... GoldProspectingInOz ....

"If the TDI is to ever to try and match any ML for depth and sensitivity then in my opinion it needs a lot of R@D (eg the current limiting in it for low impedance coils and the GB method which results in a huge loss of depth, compared to no GB)
doug "

[dougAEGPF]

So what, Doug? All you are reporting on are the methods of use required when using the most appropriate metal detecting tool currently available for detecting gold in the variable mineralisation experienced in Oz. If you or other users don't like Minelab hardware then you both have the option to use other brands of equipment. Minelab is the preferred hardware because, all things considered, Minelab delivers the goods in mineralised Oz ground.

The TDI (Oz version) also delivers the goods in mineralised Oz ground and can also give an indication of the TC of the detected object something ML can't do with a mono coil! and it costs less than 1/2 the price of a 5000! The TDI also has better EMI immunity!
dougAEGPF

[UrbanFox]

“Unfortunately as far as I am concerned if you cannot use a detectors full potential power to detect in normal mode and are forced to stay in that push/pull choke called Enhance so that the detector can remain stable over the hot ground conditions,you will be losing gold at depth. People here probably think that I might be talking through my rear end,but not the experienced blokes I'v detected with. “

and
“My findings are the same, Ive gone over my patches with a 18in and a 14in DD and picked up gold that could NOT be heard with a mono of any size or any setting combo that I tried “
and read this one on the same thread!

“Some can and will handle more than others just to gain that extra advantage of sensitivity as well as depth.I just cannot justify any metal detector that cannot be used to its full potential output power such as that of the GPX series,because it becomes to noisy with a mono coil,for was that not the reason the GPX series were designed to do(work with mono coils over hot ground)?”

“There are many out there who believe that the monos coupled to a 5000 rule the roost,90% of the times where ground allows maybe,but if that were the case,I wouldn't be picking up larger bits of gold at depth with DDs behind them”

http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t13348p30-latest-minelab-detector-info

dougAEGPF

So what, Doug? All you are reporting on are the methods of use required when using the most appropriate metal detecting tool currently available for detecting gold in the variable mineralisation experienced in Oz. If you or other users don't like Minelab hardware then you both have the option to use other brands of equipment. Minelab is the preferred hardware because, all things considered, Minelab delivers the goods in mineralised Oz ground.

[dougAEGPF]

“Unfortunately as far as I am concerned if you cannot use a detectors full potential power to detect in normal mode and are forced to stay in that push/pull choke called Enhance so that the detector can remain stable over the hot ground conditions,you will be losing gold at depth. People here probably think that I might be talking through my rear end,but not the experienced blokes I'v detected with. “

and
“My findings are the same, Ive gone over my patches with a 18in and a 14in DD and picked up gold that could NOT be heard with a mono of any size or any setting combo that I tried “
and read this one on the same thread!

“Some can and will handle more than others just to gain that extra advantage of sensitivity as well as depth.I just cannot justify any metal detector that cannot be used to its full potential output power such as that of the GPX series,because it becomes to noisy with a mono coil,for was that not the reason the GPX series were designed to do(work with mono coils over hot ground)?”

“There are many out there who believe that the monos coupled to a 5000 rule the roost,90% of the times where ground allows maybe,but if that were the case,I wouldn't be picking up larger bits of gold at depth with DDs behind them”

http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t13348p30-latest-minelab-detector-info

dougAEGPF

[UrbanFox]

Wrong! The QED and Moodz's detector can sample as early(or even earlier) and cancel the ground and hot rocks and without the huge depth loss on some long TC nuggets that happens with FG!!!!!
dougAEGPF

Would you like to show me where I can purchase either of the detectors you mention??

Vapourware doesn't count, otherwise your forum would be full of world beaters!!

[dougAEGPF]

No other pi detector can sample as early as "fine gold" and obtain the same depth while also cancelling both the ground and hot rocks.

Wrong! The QED and Moodz's detector can sample as early(or even earlier) and cancel the ground and hot rocks and without the huge depth loss on some long TC nuggets that happens with FG!!!!!
dougAEGPF

[UrbanFox]

When you see the results of testing FG and enhance on some solid gold nuggets up to 30ozs you would know why!!!!
dougAEGPF

If you don't believe there is a use for FG then don't use it. When you have experienced prospectors (not armchair prospectors like yourself, Doug) singing the praises of these Minelab timings then it is obvious there is value in them.

For quotes from actual prospectors who use Minelab machines with Fine Gold timings see....

http://www.finders.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?p=80065&highlight=#80065

____________________________________
Who uses "Fine Gold" timing and how often?
Most of the areas we detect in are fairly warm due to hotrocks and patches of burnt clay in the ground, and are usually "Enhance" type country. Some of these areas can be done in Normal but are difficult at best. I prefer mono coils and stopped using DD coils a very long time ago. I guess I just got used to the feedback much like the guys that stick with the SD machines do.

The advent of the GPX series and "specialised" timings made detecting these areas so much easier with the elimination of all, or almost all of the ground signal, and used correctly these timings have opened up a lot of areas once again.
____________________________________
No other pi detector can sample as early as "fine gold" and obtain the same depth while also cancelling both the ground and hot rocks. Some naive arm chair prospectors who specialise in making misleading statements tell us this timing is only good for detecting flypoo but it also detects some much larger specimens and crystalline gold that can be ignored or give a very poor response in Enhance and Normal timings. This can go unnoticed if you don't go over the same ground using different timings.

One thing I'm sure of is that it will never be noticed by anyone carrying out tests in the uniform ground at a test site using beer cans or al blocks or the large solid nuggets borrowed from real prospectors. "
___________________________________________
To the dis-believers that say the 5000 only finds fly poo in fine gold, I say bull !
In the last 3 months my 5000 has found nuggets of ( cleaned weight ) 6 grams, 8.6 grams and 14.6 grams, all in fine gold mode.
Typical claims from the arm chair experts that don't own a 5000, let alone have even used one.
___________________________________________

[Aziz]

When you see the results of testing FG and enhance on some solid gold nuggets up to 30ozs you would know why!!!!
dougAEGPF

This is a structural (architectural) problem of the PI technology and the GB scheme of it.
Unfortunately. The GB scheme is particularly lossy for the large time constant targets.

There must be a lot of monster slugs in the hot ground just waiting for their unearthing.

Aziz

[dougAEGPF]

So you suggest, that with latest GPX model we need to go at least twice over given terrain: once with smaller coil in FT and then with bigger coil in normal timing, to not to miss good target?

Actually more than 2 times! FG and Enhance ,then one normal timing and then use a DD coil and the sharp timing!So at least 4 times in deeper ground!!!!
dougAEGPF

[dougAEGPF]

Why knock it?

When you see the results of testing FG and enhance on some solid gold nuggets up to 30ozs you would know why!!!!
dougAEGPF

[dougAEGPF]

People have been doing this for years. Heck, I've been doing it for years. Which is why I'm a bit surprised that ML applied for a patent on the technique.

Carl if the patent is granted will you still use the technique and thus risk possible patent infringement?
dougAEGPF

[UrbanFox]

The way I read it.......
I might be totally wrong though

I seem to be reading what you seen to be reading.....perhaps we are both totally wrong, but it seems to me that you could be right.

[Altra]

This may be a great observation by ML.

But the way they are applying it, seems undefendable.

All the components described and applied have been standard for
many years in all fields of electronics. Ferrite beads on I/O lines. Circuit board shielded
with copper, tin plated steel or high permability mu metal/ferrite depending on the envirnment.

Litz wire same thing.

So if you want to keep RF out of your coil use ferrite. If there is some other benifit thats a plus!

[WM6]

Thats why they are shielding the solder joint with a ferrite bead.

Great, we can still patent an improved patent with mouldable ferrite plastics and different ferrite coat and ferrite paintings with same in-coil soldering joint effect neutralising mean.

[Altra]

Yes, but litz wire need to be soldered too - so problem with solder joint remain (if even exist in considering reality).

Thats why they are shielding the solder joint with a ferrite bead.