Open Metal Detector Project Charter

[sido]

Thats good to know.

I have already explained my position and will leave it at that.

Regards Sid

[chudster]

Hi Chudster, i agree with most of your above post.

My agenda is the same general conception as the 4000 + members here. I have no ill intent motive, just simply enjoy the hobby in general and have a interest in the Electronics aspects of it.



Please explain, because i must be missing the point you have stated. If you want the answer, ask the rest of the members on this forum. Just hope that your intentions are the same as the majority.

Regards Sid

Yes Sid, the last bit was to be directed at everybody and not at you. My personal motivations are discerned from my very first post on the forum.

Chudster

[sido]

Hi Chudster, i agree with most of your above post.

My agenda is the same general conception as the 4000 + members here. I have no ill intent motive, just simply enjoy the hobby in general and have a interest in the Electronics aspects of it.

If someone does speak to the contrary, then we need to understand what you are doing here to see if we could or should accommodate your aims in considering the topic of this thread.

Chudster

Please explain, because i must be missing the point you have stated. If you want the answer, ask the rest of the members on this forum. Just hope that your intentions are the same as the majority.

Regards Sid

[chudster]

Keep up the good work all involved here and please understand that i have no vested interest in developing a commercial product presented here for financial gain and all i wish is to see the further development in the field on Metal detectors, especially a highly performing and competitive Metal Detector that can be achieved here by hobbiests at a reduced cost.

Cheers Sid

Sid, I think that development of metal detector tech. is the main aim of this forum and I don't expect that will change. The aim is to get innovative and successful designs out there. That could be commercial and/or non-commercial as people wish and has happened before. What we are exploring here is how or whether we should organise to do that more effectively and whether there are new concepts like open hardware and open innovation that can help. This is especially in view of recent events that are probably of greater concern to folks in Oz than others.

Its complicated a little by all of the different people with seemingly different agendas. While people do differ, I think the core purpose is to research, develop and deliver excellent state of the art working designs. It could be just for ourselves or for others. Money making or not, I think that is common.

My understanding is that the QED has decent performance. If it were not the case it is difficult to understand why Minelab would have worried enough to pay its lawyers. We know their path of interaction with industry was disastrous and it has not supported that 'state of the art' design to be out there as they wanted. It may now be stopped or at least delayed. While we can blame individuals for their situation or we can rant at Minelab it nevertheless sets a worrying precedent- especially to those of us in Oz who want to to "research, develop and deliver excellent state of the art working designs". We all need to 'go to school' on what has happened and get smart for the next successful design.

You have made clear why you are here. This is not directed at you.

I don't believe that it is Carl's style to filter out people but if someone is on this forum it would be expected that is why someone is here. So while there are other things that bring us to the forum, if anyone has a core purpose different to being a part of "researching, developing and delivering excellent state of the art working designs" please speak now or as they say, forever hold your peace!

If someone does speak to the contrary, then we need to understand what you are doing here to see if we could or should accommodate your aims in considering the topic of this thread.

Chudster

[sido]

Yes i do know what happened with Eric and the TDI. Okay, point noted.

The other i have no idea??

Sid

[sido]

Originally Posted by sido
There are already Manufactured detector stems and coils housings out there and no need to re-invent the wheel.



That's what Dave did with the Nemesis. Ask him how that turned out.


Royalties, what royalties.....i can say no-one will see a cent here, just a part of corporate greed.



That's what Eric did with the TDI. Ask him how that turned out.



Hi Carl, i do not see why i should ask either of the two you mentioned as to what happened.

Lets get this straight and clear....if i have crossed a particular line of yours, because of what seams to be going on here, post's etc....please let me know. I was only giving options in regards to other posts.

Maybe you can inform me by email as to those circumstances above so i can understand your comments in respect to this threads integrity and avoid invasion.

I am all in for hobby projects. I do not want to see people taken for a ride, that all. A lot of other people have contributed to what is known of today's current developmental projects and just hope that it stays that way. It seams to be heading in the wrong direction.

Everyone has a particular agenda here and lets just hope that its common and neutral for ALL and hopefully all relevant contributers are properly compensated where its warranted.

Sid

[sido]

First of all, Would like to say i was only giving ideas on how you can commercialize a project on this Forum if need to be. Was not sure where the topic was heading too, so i responded to shed some light on recent posts in the said subject of commercialization if need to be.

It seams there is no other way in my view, but keep in mind what i have posted above as future reference if need to be to take a project further without a deterrent on what has been discussed and questioned so far here......... Maybe there is no other way.....unless i am told otherwise, i will keep my mouth shut for now. I do not want to take this further in discussion so will leave it at that.

Moodz i envy you for your great input in Metal Detector development and wish that the projects presented here, stay here and are developed further and hopefully a single working platform is established and confirmed working in the field. I can see there is no deterrent to you from previous set backs, if that is what's has been interpreted of late, as long as no IP is not infringed, which seams to be the case here of hot topic of late...........then all your great work is fine.

I have noticed too that only a few have input in development here, but please consider that some might not have the knowledge or no how to go about designing or programming such circuits and frankly that includes me.

What i can offer is the ability to build, test, diagnose, problem solving and field testing if need to be where time permits. Also i can assist in some financial backing if that is required to develop further in the future as a collective group. Please consider this....i say this statement so all understand where i am coming from.

My vested interest ATM is in Traffic Control Systems and i am working on a solar product for pedestrian safety, which is taking a lot of my spare time away from this hobby in Medal Detecting. Wish i had a local programmer to assist me in a simple program that i require, but that is for another time to divulge in too.

Keep up the good work all involved here and please understand that i have no vested interest in developing a commercial product presented here for financial gain and all i wish is to see the further development in the field on Metal detectors, especially a highly performing and competitive Metal Detector that can be achieved here by hobbiests at a reduced cost.

Cheers Sid

[Carl-NC]

I bumped it to 200, but you should save your PMs to your computer. One server crash and they're gone.

[hdphilip]

Carl,

can i get a bigger in box, i have to keep deleting my lab notes

Philip

[Carl-NC]

What are you going to do? What's your goal?

That's the very first question that must be answered. And, unfortunately, when you try to get 10 people together for a collaboration there may be 10 different goals.

[Carl-NC]

There are already Manufactured detector stems and coils housings out there and no need to re-invent the wheel.

That's what Dave did with the Nemesis. Ask him how that turned out.

Royalties, what royalties.....i can say no-one will see a cent here, just a part of corporate greed.

That's what Eric did with the TDI. Ask him how that turned out.

[Aziz]

.... and further more .... I should have put this in one long rant post LOL ...... I am sure most of you have heard the term "race to the bottom" ... if there was a high performance detector module available for around $100 eg as an assembled PCB from Hongkong or somewhere that hobbyists could tweak and put in their own box etc etc and it was comparable or better in performance than the top line detectors sold by manufacturers then of course every man and his dog would be after one of these specials as they would stand to save some 1000s of dollars over a commercial equivalent..... there will of course always be people who buy commercial ... but the price of high performance detectors as we know it would literally "race to the bottom" as people in the know would be able to source an equivalent detector from "backyarders" for maybe $500 total. ( eg hobbyists etc making a buck and cheap chinese or other source copies ). Of course the military and industrial markets would not suffer to the same degree but it would certainly put a dent in the hobbyist / prosumer pricing model.
moodz

Get ready to be legally sued!!!!

[moodz]

.... and further more .... I should have put this in one long rant post LOL ...... I am sure most of you have heard the term "race to the bottom" ... if there was a high performance detector module available for around $100 eg as an assembled PCB from Hongkong or somewhere that hobbyists could tweak and put in their own box etc etc and it was comparable or better in performance than the top line detectors sold by manufacturers then of course every man and his dog would be after one of these specials as they would stand to save some 1000s of dollars over a commercial equivalent..... there will of course always be people who buy commercial ... but the price of high performance detectors as we know it would literally "race to the bottom" as people in the know would be able to source an equivalent detector from "backyarders" for maybe $500 total. ( eg hobbyists etc making a buck and cheap chinese or other source copies ). Of course the military and industrial markets would not suffer to the same degree but it would certainly put a dent in the hobbyist / prosumer pricing model.
moodz

[moodz]

....and while I am on the subject .. the hobbyists here would be far better served if someone came up with a "board and interconnect" standard or adopted one ... ( eg arduino style etc ) with standard sizing / casing / interconnects for digital, analogue and power signals etc etc. I find the arduino sheild "real estate" is a bit small for complex designs unless you are using surface mount however maybe a passive carrier board which can plug arduinos and other formats might be suitable. Also there should be bulk buys for hard to get / expensive components, wire and a good source of standard shafts, boxes, coil housing etc etc etc.

[moodz]

Hi guys,

I'm missing the real goal of such a project. Remember, companies have the goal to make profits.

What a goal could have a hobbyist?
- Learning: How detectors work?
- Fun: DIY, smelling solder fume, ...?
- Poor man's solution: DIY to make it very cheap by yourself?
- Sport: Challenging the best?
- Profit & Living: Small production line?
- The intellectual challenge: Making something sophisticated, you can't even buy.
..

What are you going to do? What's your goal?
Cheers,
Aziz

I love the smell of solder in the morning ... it smells like breakfast

Aziz has hit the nail on the head ....the hobbyist seeks the things above ... not commercial success ....we can call them Aziz's rules.

Manufacturers dont hang around posting on boards or publish their finished designs .... and never their developmental designs ... so forget this ... .... the distributed model proposed will never work as consumers will not get consistant service or products from hobbyists. Thats what manufacturers are for ... they are organised, they have a plan and a vision, they have Intellectual Property and importantly they have TRADE SECRETS ... the essential ingredient in any product that adds that little bit of finesse that means the difference between a quality, functional product and a poorly made, poor performing product ... this is something that the hobbyists will never achieve as there is no motive for the hobbyist to conform to a common goal. ( in a company you get to keep your job if you stay on track ... a pretty good motive ).

All a hobbyist can do is build the best detector he can WITHOUT using someone elses IP and at best he/she will achieve some or all of the things that Aziz mentions above ....if you can make some money by selling the design to a manufacturer then good luck to you ...but if you want to be a manufacturer ... why choose the M/D business ... its so niche .... and there are wider/easier opportunities out there.

moodz.