Analysis this schematic

[mohandes]

[QUOTE=porkluvr;171517]Ain't no zip? Geez, I guess I screwed up.

Here I try again.[/QUOTE

thanks
but i should work that more.merci

[porkluvr]

Ain't no zip? Geez, I guess I screwed up.

Here I try again.

[porkluvr]

Mohandes, all,

Here are the CD4000 series symbols and a model library composed by Helmut Senewald that you might find on the LTspice Yahoo tech group. The files are untouched except that I downloaded them and combined them into the zip file.

The model library is a text file. For my own use, I have changed my copy's extension from .lib to lib.txt. I would sometimes have Altium on my machine, which registers the .lib extension for its own parts libraries (in Windows). I would want to read the CD4000.lib file and I got tired of clicking the CD4000 file, thus invoking Altium. I would wait... and wait, for Altium to open just so I could close it. You may drag-drop the CD4000.lib file into notepad if you want to read it without invoking Altium (or Protel), should either be present.

I included Helmut's instructions in the zip.

There is a newer library version on the tech group's website but I have not used it and I don't know how it works but it might be easier to use than this version.

Look at post #150 in this thread to see how to set the attributes, right clicking the symbol after it has been placed on the schematic.

These CD4000 components for the most part work really well, but as Davor pointed out the CD4538 (which is actually represented by a CD14538 model) does run really slow.Also, hystereses is not implemented which affects the CD4093 model. (Any Surfmaster PI lovers, take note).

I attempted to implement the hystereses feature by hacking the model file but quickly found out that I wasn't smart enough to pull that off.

I find many schematic circuits using the CD4538 to be practically inscrutable, so what I did for myself is to convert a CD14538 symbol into both CD4538a and CD4538b symbols, and annotate pin numbers for both halfs. That has made it easier for me to double-check a simulation I am composing against the original schematic (although mistake still occur).

[Davor]

Yes, that's the one Watching my clothes going out of fashion is more exciting than these finishing a millisecond of simulation.

Thanks for the tips. One day I might make some substitute model for these. The sw model is very quick to converge the transitions and offers enough flexibility. I like to substitute various analogue switching devices with these as they are easily convinced to assume such functions, and in most cases you are not going to benefit from too slow but accurate models anyway.

[porkluvr]

Last time I played with 4538s in LTspice they were incredibly slow to converge. Do you maybe have some more cooperative models?

I'm pretty sure we both have the same model, from CD4000.lib (?). Mine runs pretty slow but not bone-jarring slow. With four OSs in this circuit this simulation slows down to about 6 us/s when the one-shots start "calculating". That is acceptable to me.

I am using my old 1.8GHz Athlon XP2500+ dinosaur, 2Gb.

Make sure you change the "SpiceModel" field to reflect the names of both power supply rails. Ground being called "0" has always worked for me.

SpiceLine "VDD=" should state the absolute value of (V+ - V-) (of course).

[mohandes]

HI ALL GURUS
i find my BIG PROBLEM this is in pin14, should change multi turn by resistor like #143 .
i have frequency in pin6,7,10,9 U3(measure by multimeter and about 140Hz),for i am SURE about these, i should measure by scope in collage 2 days latter.

I SAY THANKS GURUS AND FRIENDS:Mr porkluvr ,Mr Davor, Mr georgi ,Mr Tepco,Mr carl
but i measure by scope 2 days latter for becuase i SURE about them.

[Davor]

Last time I played with 4538s in LTspice they were incredibly slow to converge. Do you maybe have some more cooperative models?

[porkluvr]

!

[mohandes]

Here you can see the signals on the 4538 'RC' pins.
They are in the order U2-2, U2-14, U3-2, U3-15. Discriminate pot has been MOVED to its correct location, set at 50%.

Now, these RC sigals do not tell me very much but since you wanted to see them, here they are.

After having realized I had the discriminate pot at the wrong location, now I need to sit back and take another look to figure out what it does. Oh, happy day.

FIRST i say thank you very much and for professional design ,i see the pot discrimination and in my pcb is correct i n#143 (like alexis)ok i set it on 5K.
and this is my analyse:
for U3 in1,4,8,12,15 are -10.6v and always Fixed and pin3,13,16are Fixed and 0volt, and pin9 not connection and pin 11 is Fixed.SO THESE PINS HAVE NOT ERROR

so remained pin2,5,10,14,6,7 and for this pins:
if pin2,5 not well work have mistake ok!!so pin6and pin7 not good so have fault,BUT HOW?when all correct for example cb ok,components ok ,voltages ok,but yet pin6,7,9,10 not have pulses,
IF you can and dont tired and dont angry put measure waves of pin6,7,9,10 and again i go and check,
just i say so sorry because i am confused i check all but when measure not out put (or maybe ok and i am not ok)
thanks
this picture of pin2 &14 pcb but have not good Quality

[porkluvr]

Here are SA, SB, and SC. I think they're correct this time.

As the discriminate pot is moved, SB and also the right half of the SC signal will move.

[porkluvr]

Here you can see the signals on the 4538 'RC' pins.
They are in the order U2-2, U2-14, U3-2, U3-15. Discriminate pot has been MOVED to its correct location, set at 50%.

Now, these RC sigals do not tell me very much but since you wanted to see them, here they are.

After having realized I had the discriminate pot at the wrong location, now I need to sit back and take another look to figure out what it does. Oh, happy day.

[porkluvr]

ok i am Waiting
thanks

I'm still working.

I took another look at the top foto in post 137. You might be right about there being a mistake. The wiper should not be connected to ground unless the 4.7kΩ resistor is moved to the bottom side (pin-1) of the potentiometer.

My copy of a Fairchild CD4538 data sheet implies that the minimum resistance on either pin-1 or pin-15 is 5.0kΩ. Jumping across the 4.7kΩ from the pot's wiper would render about 1/3 of the pot travel unusable.

[mohandes]

I see that, instead of being mid-position, my (LTspice) 555 PPS pot is set to high PPS, and pulsewidth is set to long PW. Earlier today I tried setting those controls to mid-position but the simulation ran for only 2 milliseconds and then wanted to hang. I have 'dialed' the pots back to where they were, high PPS and high PW. Such is life. I do not have time to troubleshoot that virtual hang-up.

Here's an important note: I had the resistance on U3-2 on mislabeled, calling it discriminate by mistake. The discriminate pot is connected to U3-14. I apologize for the mistake.

I have some chores to do. I'll try to post your signals when I get back.

ok i am Waiting
thanks

[porkluvr]

mr porkluvr
please measure pin2,pin14 for U2 ,U3 and put it here,and pin6,7,9,10 U3,please
thanks

I see that, instead of being mid-position, my (LTspice) 555 PPS pot is set to high PPS, and pulsewidth is set to long PW. Earlier today I tried setting those controls to mid-position but the simulation ran for only 2 milliseconds and then wanted to hang. I have 'dialed' the pots back to where they were, high PPS and high PW. Such is life. I do not have time to troubleshoot that virtual hang-up.

Here's an important note: I had the resistance on U3-2 on mislabeled, calling it discriminate by mistake. The discriminate pot is connected to U3-14. I apologize for the mistake.

I have some chores to do. I'll try to post your signals when I get back.

[mohandes]

mr porkluvr
please measure pin2,pin14 for U2 ,U3 and put it here,and pin6,7,9,10 U3,please
thanks