OKM Inside

[Qiaozhi]

Funfinder - I think it is now time to quote the rules of the forum (once again):

• Be polite. Write messages as if you are standing in front of someone talking to them.

• Criticism should be relevant and constructive. If you disagree with something, state your case, and move on.
  

• Personal attacks, whether directed at a participant or a non-participant, are not tolerated.

Your remarks are direct attacks on Ivconic and KT315.
If you read Ivconic's posts, they were both relevant and constructive, and above all ... "polite".

[Funfinder]

Back to the "REAL" interesting and important stuff:


I wonder if these OKM-"engineers" are believing by them self that their Bionic Ionic bla bla bla dreamer-toys are working !!!

Look, like with flying to the moon, technical interested persons always wanted to reach records and sensations!
Now lets imagine, that these OKM-guys are just fanatics which are not satisfied with the depth and recognition capabilities
of their usual products or that those are not outstanding enough for their personal ego!

In other words - these freaks wanna feel better by offering some Uber-Hitec-LRL-device for becoming rich and famous !!!
To hide the lies of course they must use all kind of tricks like "only old gold is detectable" bla bla bla. Same as Mineoro.
Carls challenge for them is also no option, they would like to have the money but they can't prove their crap wrong,
otherwise they could no longer fool and betray "a little bit too greedy" treasure-hunters with them.

But perhaps some of the OKM-"engineers" are really that totally insane that they are convinced, that their
"great inventions" must work - if just are the sun-, field-, weather- and other -conditions are correct. *laugh*
Which of course never would be the case at Carls- LRL-Challenge - seen from their own delusional perspective.

Same as Uri Geller from Israel never went into some test-laboratory to bend the spoons and stop the clocks!
There are so horrible unscientific test-conditions and already the "bad energy" there destroys all the magic!
*3 times short laugh*

But what I don't get is that people, which seems to be "rich" so they can afford to waste huge amounts
of money to buy worthless equipment, have no money for a good lawyer to shut such sh*t-companies down!
One reason for sure is that they feel ashamed and don't wanna confess being so stupidly naive !!! *laugh*

Its the big fantastic tax-money the fraudsters create, so the mayors etc. have an interest to keep them alive?
Yes for sure - but it seems the Germans are no longer proud of their good reputation all over the world for
great and good working technical "Made In Germany" products which where famous for their reliabilty etc.

I don't care, they can go to hell and rot there if they betray others and do nothing against it!
Companies like OKM can make business out of Panama or in a South American banana-republic
where we know already that they just wanna rip off everyone, but not inside a civilized country!

But perhaps the OKM-engineers are the greatest wishful-thinkers or "wish-tinkerers" at all! *laugh* !!!
Same as ivconic 2 years ago still claimed that some LRL-crap would work, which leaded me
to some nice punishment against him at the LRL-forum incl. "cursing" him! *laugh* Remember?

Because we really don't need technical "educated" persons who mess up the good soup with sh*t!
The good soup are the real working metal-detectors, GPRs and the sh*t are the LRLs!
Such guys are just helpers of the LRL-business because they are blurring the borders between
right and wrong, between real working and 10.000 bucks expensive crap!

Personally I also think that Qiaozhi was right and that no matter what detector from OKM should
"exists" here, because this blurres the borders between real working MD and dirty LRL and also
creates some too good impression about a company, which clearly tricks uninformed trasure-hunters
into buying very expensive LRL-equipment, which in the end does NOT detect what was claimed
and just makes trouble for those who bought it and then resell it - so others have problems, too!

Why not move this whole thread to the LRL forum or at least copy it 1:1 to this location so its
for sure at the right location?

I don't care, but I would never ever buy anything again from a company which tried to fool me!
They could not fool me, because for luck we have - incl. Geotech - meanwhile a lot of scientific
reliable information-sources and fair acting MD-dealers who never would offer any product from
fishy companies because they wanna keep their over the years much money spending customers.

OKM inside = DEVIL inside !!! *laugh*

[Funfinder]

> As long as you stay in the Off topic part of the forum; it is bearable.

Bla bla bla, Now you finally have diqualified yourself! Too bad for you, but this world is full of idiots
and I don't care about them! For luck my success gives me right while your failures make you look like a fool ! *laugh*
Same primitive as kt315 and the living proof for NEVER EVER be consiliatory and forgiving against people who
showed already how disgusting their personality is, because all what they will do is bite again like a crazy dog! *laugh*


And about kt315 with his "Nintendo"-problems:

This guy just does not wants to "lose its face" here, so he must stick to his worthless opinions from 10 years ago!
So his parents or friends can be proud of this genious! *laugh* Same as all the stupid dreamers and believers never
want to admit that they were or are wrong!

But a real adult character is able to confess to itself and to others that he did or was wrong!
Only children start to lie and cry to defend their sh*t from which they already know that it was a failure or their fault.

[ivconic]

...
It is; you keep your mutt shut! Period!
Whatever you learn in your life; keep it for yourself only. Shut that mutt!
Don't talk. Don't act wise. Don't spill the wisdom around.

This is crap, you did the absolutely correct and the only problem was
that you afterwards still cared about what they write!
You can't turn back time anyway and so it just would undermine
your personal self-esteem if you criticize what you did earlier.

You think so?
Is it better me to shut up now... or again to tell you that your posts are too huge, often annoying and i bet nobody reads them till the end, probably leave reading them after few sentences?
It is ok post to be huge if it tells something with consistency, connected, meaningful. Some interesting story, some tech&science and educational explanation or so.
But most of your posts that i have tried to read are repetitive, annoying, without any consistency.
And what's most important; most of the time your posts has nothing to do with main nature of the Geotech forums.
I think you missed the right forum. You shall search for some other kind of forum, Philosophy for layman... or something like that.
Have you noticed that almost nobody reacts on your posts? Never mind the subject.
Also have you noticed that you are total topic-spoiler, where ever you appear and start posting?
Sort of topic-killer.
Nobody will say this to you, only me. Because everybody else, but me, are smarter and knows to shut up and let it go.
By saying all this; i don't mean to offend you, nor to harm your feelings.
I only think it is final time somebody to tell you straight in face about how your general appearance on this forum looks like.
Administrators can't tell you something like this, which is quite alright.
I didn't want to mix in your personal issues and do anything similar.
But since you commented the question about is it better to always tell what's on your mind or to shut up; somehow you released me to tell you these things.
Simple fact is that you literally flooded Geotech forums with numerous huge but totally meaningless posts and essays about nothing.
As long as you stay in the Off topic part of the forum; it is bearable.
Think about this.

[Funfinder]

Very nice, I enjoyed your both stories, ivconic! Thanks!
And they show that you are a man with character, no flag in the wind.
Now I also can understand your not so enthusiastic opinions about certain MDs.

The MAIN problem with the (unmodified) Jeohunter and Golden King was the
for most too heavy coil!

You don't find much stuff if you are walking just 100 meters! *laugh*
But this was the very solid - almost old military - style production in 2009!
These coils are really super stable and indestructable - but also pretty heavy.

Concerinng the Garrett - it's reliable but 50% depth reduced if E-smog is nearby.
Same as Fisher already, how much I was frustrated just because of power-lines!
You bareley will find some SEVEN centimeter diameter object at 35cm distance.


But now to the funny and story part: *laugh*

First hook me up with this bouncer if that Disco still exists! *laugh*
I wanna have a great Balkan Party time in Vienna.


Then:
I love to destroy the dreams of the wish-thinkers! Even those of my parents!
We are not living like Alice in Wonderland but at a world with important tasks
and needs. Social life will not work on a correct basis if only lunatics are running
around!

I'm understanding that people are afraid of death and wanna dream of eternal
paradise - but this is a difference as long as they don't harm others with this.


It is; you keep your mutt shut! Period!
Whatever you learn in your life; keep it for yourself only. Shut that mutt!
Don't talk. Don't act wise. Don't spill the wisdom around.

This is crap, you did the absolutely correct and the only problem was
that you afterwards still cared about what they write!
You can't turn back time anyway and so it just would undermine
your personal self-esteem if you criticize what you did earlier.

Don't care about persons who wanna do it their own style and "lose"
but if so, support them or not without wanting any thanks of them.
This should be common sense but of course some people just have
so many own problems so they can't care about their community.


These whole stories were quite entertaining because they show
whats going wrong:
The tpycial thinking - the more expensive the MD, the more treasures.

This is wrong and must be replaced with: The more area you are walking
over and covering with your sweeps and coil AND the deeper the detector,
(as long as you just don't wanna find little surface-near stuff) the higher are
the chances that you will once find the jackpot (outside of a Gambling-hall).

Especially newbies don't understand anything of this!
They want it simple, easy going, lightweight and especially fast!
They wanna have a treasure-map with exact GPS locations! *laugh*


But back to "never destroy their wishthinking dreams":

Hahaha, please tell this to Carl personally and ask him to shut
down the LRL-forum! This is not against you ive but its just so funny,
because the LRL-forum does nothing else than destroying the illusions
of them! Of course it also warns the still mentally health and realistical
thinking persons about not buying these worthless pieces of pseudo-sh*t!

Oh my! *laugh*
Be proud of that you warned them and don't care if they still wanna run
into the abbyss!

Seen from the entertainment-factor its not even such a bad business for them:

Buying a dowsing-rod for 10.000 bucks and having 1 year "fun" with it! *laugh*
You must imagine this high grade excitement and pink cloud which they
have after buying the LRL! Their mind is already every day circulating around
the soon coming life like a millionaire! This is PRICELESS !!!

And seriously: This is simply their gambling-addiction!

There exists so many people who "invest" 10.000 bucks in one night
at the gambling-hall and lose it all - so called: High-Rollers.

No no, stand your ground and fight for your own personal values!
Don't care about those who first don't wanna listen to you and afterwards
must pay the price. You did exactly the right thing and there is absolutely
no reason for remorse. Stupid people you don't need in your life anyway.
I know, pride is a big topic in the Balkans and it hurts if some total fools
spread false information, but be so proud and stand above them!

These silly "kids" just didn't know it any better and had to made their own
tough experiences. And seriously - guys who wanna find very fast some
fortune are like kids with far too high expectations! *laugh*

Another topic is that all this new internet-communication-crap is not for
the best anyway. "Virtual connection" with foreign opinions and characters
which must cause problems and conflicts because the distance and mentality
is often just too huge and too few time that each first tries to understand the
thinking and reasons of each other. In earlier times the youth of each little
just 5km away village had conflicts with the mentality of the other village! *laugh*


OK, I guess this was it for now.
The only thing what I don't understand is why so many people lack the ability
to distinct good from bad, working from not-working, real versus fantasy etc.
This is not just: "I wanna feel good through illusions and self-delusions!",
its also not just stupid arrogance and thinking of being better than others.

And this experience of: "you can't convince them" is nothing new.
You also can't convince your friend if it was falling in love with a person
from which the whole community knows that this will bring nothing good.
I personally made this experience on my own - learning this way is tough.

But:
"The humans will is its own reich of heaven!"

[Funfinder]

Haha, I found a nice video where archaeological experts are searching
some old Inka site with Nokta Golden King incl. 1 meter coil!


Enjoy - this video is in english language:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tGwkgAbE20
It even clearly detects a tunnel which most MDs never can detect at all.


However I must say that as real treasure-hunter you don't need all this
bell-whistles and grafical output of this device, you only lose precious search
and dig time with it!

I made a LCD-display switch off button-mod for the Jeohunter which is even 5% deeper
as the Nokta Golden King because of newer circuit, so the LiPo-pack lasts 40% longer
and the only thing which really counts is that it goes through high-mineralized soil
like butter and finds no matter where, the deep stuff.

The Nokta Golden King is of course "optical" pretty attractive seen from the "show"
it provides incl. GPS and Gas sensor and all the other luxury-equipment.
This was also the Makro and Nokta brothers splitting point of discussion!

Do we really need this just huge costs causing "luxury-crap" ???
Do you wanna watch movies on your metal-detector or find treasures? *laugh*

[Funfinder]

> you have weak memory? we had (HAD) discussed wood made jeohunter coil here
> and that jeohunter is just VLF with full of trash samsung chips, creating an illusion
> super puper advanced superior technology device. do not start again this matter from zero point.

Don't you get it: I was standing already 2010 with the Jeohunter & only 45cm coil in front of
a larger metal object and while made a 360 degree turn in air I could detect it with no problem.
Yes, from 4 meters, because i had my meter-rod with me.

But you kt315 are not allowed to even know this anymore! You are like a person talking about
stars you see in a cold winter night and can't imagine how hot they really are. *laugh*
Don't contact me any longer kt315, you are braindead for me.

[Funfinder]

> Funfinder, does it bother you that OKM sells scam devices?

It does not only bother me, it brings me in rage! But I can't take a shotgun
and make a zombie-style mud out of these verm*** for all treasure-hunters.

And this whole OKM problem would have been long time ago solved if not
most people only just care about their own problems. Most treasure-hunters
have no compassion if others lose a lot money to scammers as long as they
personally are not involved. Pretty anti-social behavior instead of working
together as a group of persons who share the same interests. Pretty sad.

[ivconic]

And i could tell several similar stories too.
During the 30 years of "career" i collected many similar stories.
Showing the same one truth.
There is always a "fortune" laying somewhere there.
But hard to be located properly.
Conventional md equipment and tools can't reach it.
So people usually turns to "alternative" methods, in hope that it will help.
Deeper they sink into such beliefs; more blind they become to rude reality.
Than they are ready to "move a mountains" just to get the fortune.
I've seen so many bitter and sad destinies so far.
People lost everything in life in no time, putting all they can on stake.
A man visited me. Wants to get informed on "alternative" tools, to finally locate the fortune he dreamed about.
It was hard to locate it. Only some mighty technology can do it.
So he listed internet advertisements, watched too many Yotube demonstrations, and finally concluded that certain "Nokta... somewhat somewhat" is what he needs to do the job.
But price was 5500 euros! Dream money!
So he was about to loan the money from a childhood friend. Who is living in Austria, working some proper job and earning pretty proper money.
But before that he wanted to hear my opinion (justification is what he expected to hear from me).
Fast on words (and slow on brains), as i am, i immediately told him my opinion.
And my opinion is rude and ugly in such cases.
He left me disappointed.
A year passed. Phone call. A different, unknown man calls. Asking me if i can help him to understand better how to handle some "speaking" Garrett!
Alright! I had few "speaking" Garrets... so i it is piece of cake for me.
He visited me with his father. Actually he bought the detector for his father.
So we sit, i talked and explained. Everything went alright. No risks with Garrett, it is splendid machine. Nothing can go wrong.
At the end we had a coffee, talking common talks. I asked him about what he is doing.
He told me he is living for years in Vienna, Austria, working as bus driver by day and night club bouncer at night. Earning pretty decent money.
I also notice how huge the guy is. Giant. With huge muscles. Ok, it figures, perfect for scary bouncer.
But guy is also very intelligent and pretty calm and pleasant character.
At the end he mentioned that he is looking for some other guy... to "brake every little bone in his body"... by the way!
I asked what is all about?! Than he explained me, telling me whole the story.
Than i recognized the guy with the "Nokta desire" in his story...! Ha, ha, ha!
He loaned money, bought Nokta, busted .... and than disappeared from the face of Earth!
He loaned money from childhood friend... who is sitting in front of me and telling me the story!
Several months later, quite another man, told me that "Nokta guy" emigrated to Sweden, working some hard labor, trying to collect money for loan.
...
Very intelligent and conversant friend from another city, called me one day, asking me what do i think on "Mala Ramac", GPR, made in Sweden.
A model with a price of 25 000 euros. Can't recall exact model now.
I never saw one in real life. All i know is what i can read over the internet.
But from what i know; such equipment is highly professional, mostly designed and dedicated to very narrow and strict professional use.
That exact model was aimed mostly for use in constructional industry.
So he asked me about opinion and i told him my opinion. Not suitable for locating buried fortune, most certainly.
He was about also to loan 25 000 euros to buy it!!!! Later to travel across the country, visiting various sites and discovering all the "fortunes" around.
I told him, as a friend, not to waste so much money, especially loaned money, on something so stupid like such idea was.
I even insisted, as a friend, him not to do such lunatic move.
It was the very last phone call between me and him. He never called me again. Nor contacted by any other means.
Months... without any intention to know the news; i got the news from mutual friends.
So he did it. Than he traveled the country, visited sites... having no success at all.
But i bet i was the most ignorant and stupid fool to tell my honest opinion to him.
Usually it is the case.
...
Those were examples from distant and less distant past in my "career".
Most recently, just year or two back; i finally learned the ultimate truths on this subject.
It is; you keep your mutt shut! Period!
Whatever you learn in your life; keep it for yourself only. Shut that mutt!
Don't talk. Don't act wise. Don't spill the wisdom around.
Just shut up for good!
Or... you will suffer hard!
You will loose friends, stay alone.
Against the all possible "windmills" you can imagine.

[kt315]

Try to detect a metal object at 4m distance with the XP Deus for which the Nokta Golden King
and the Jeohunter only needs its 45cm coil. The only problem is the weight of the coil and
the detection-value-range drift but now with standard available reset-button no problem.
---
you have weak memory? we had (HAD) discussed wood made jeohunter coil here
and that jeohunter is just VLF with full of trash samsung chips, creating an illusion
super puper advanced superior technology device. do not start again this matter from zero point.

[ivconic]

I could write large book with real life true examples.
Yet i am not able to give the answers.
Does anybody remember Sirius pulse induction metal detector?
I have probably the most amusing story on it.
With risk that i will slowly slip into writing small novel, probably annoy, i will tell it here.
Initially Sirius was offered as semi kit for a price of 1850e.
Person D, from near neighbor country bought it like that. Put it together.
Than sold it to person E across the border for price of 4000 e.
Person E put it on local advertisement with price of 5000e.
There is a small village next to the city, commonly poor working class.
Persons A,B and C living there.
Person A, neighbor with persons B and C.
Person A bought Sirius for a price of 5000 euros !!!
He was too cocky and wanted to show up, so he spread the news.
B and C are daydreamers. Totally sure there is a buried fortune waiting them.
They only don't have a tool to precisely locate it.
As the usual story goes; such fortunes are too deep to be located with ordinary and cheap detectors.
So they expected person A to join them in such venture and with a help of mighty Sirius to locate the fortune.
However... after just few days; person A realized that Sirius is overpriced crap and that he wasted money.
Instead telling the truth; he started to tell fairy tales to persons B and C, on how splendid Sirius performing.
He showed few gold coins to them, claiming that he detected them with Sirius at 1 meter depths.
Whenever they asks him to join them and go search for the fortune; he got some excuse. And delayed.
His idea was to slowly persuade them to buy the Sirius from him. That's how he would retrieve the wasted money.
Time was passing. Nothing happening. He avoids them making various excuses.
One day he said to them "Finally i got my fortune, i don't need Sirius anymore. I am putting it on sale."
Person B and C are poor people. Working class. 5000e is unbelievable sum for them.
But the desire, itch and strong belief in existing buried fortune was too blinding for them.
So they went to a local loan shark, kind a mobster, to loan that sum. They loaned money.
Than local mentality, so typical for the small town people, started to bug them.
Why the heck would we buy it from him? He avoid us and he don't want to do us a favor, to go with us and dig so obvious fortune.
We will not buy it from him, we will buy brand new from the "seller".
So they did buy it. From person E. Making him and person D very happy.
Finally that day came. Another Sirius is there. So they went to a site. Spent a day, two, many... no fortune!
Something is misty about this Sirius? Must be something that we are doing wrong? Probably is something in settings that we don't do right?
After all; it is ultimate high tech device, right? It got a shiny large TFT display! Nice large box! Looking so expensive and advance.
Too many hard to understand options on screen. Too many parameters to adjust. Probably we don't do something right.
We will need a help from somebody skilled in this. There is a certain "ivconic" in neighbor city, people are claiming that he is skilled enough to help us.
Let's find his phone and call him. So they did. I accepted. Mostly because i was too curious to see that detector and what is all about.
One day they visited me. I was also impressed with a look of the detector. Looking sharp and expensive. Of course.
Previously i had field experiences with Lorenz Deepmax for shorter period and Pulse Star II Pro for quite longer period.
Also i made approx 70 copies of Delta Pulse, with various setups. Various coil sizes, various pps etc.
So.. more or less; you could say that i have some so so experience with such detectors. I could tell if detector is good for certain task or not.
So we tested the Sirius for 4-5 hours. I tested all the options at it. All the combinations of setups.
I was more than disappointed in what i saw. It was too slow, many lags in behavior, inert, terrible low sensitive, "shallow" at any type of targets.
I couldn't believe what i saw. Such poor performances for such high price? Or i am also not capable to adjust it right? Ok, that's the possibility too.
I told them my opinion. Roughly. Without picking up the right words to make their "pain" bearable. They left me with totally green faces.
Time is passing. Weeks. Months.
There are few local md forums here. I don't visit them so often. Nothing to read there. Most of the topics just taken from Geotech and translated, diluted...
One day a friend urgently called me, suggesting me to visit one of those local forums and read new topic. So i did.
I was shocked!
There is a story going on for weeks on that topic. I was blamed as total ignorant, "enemy", liar, sneaky b*stard... you name it.
When they left me, they phoned the person E, complaining. Than also involved person D too in the argue.
Person D is running also local forum in neighbor country.
With the help of that forum he is advertising and selling the various crap that he smuggles across the customs, for years.
So... you can only imagine what kind of mess i provoked by telling the truth to those poor people!
Like i poked my finger directly to eyes of persons E and D. And that was not small thing to do.
Huge and terrible public forum anti campaign started against me. I was the "public enemy No1" at the time.
Reading further posts at that pathetic little forum; i realized even more horrible thing!
Persons B and C were later totally turned to believe that i was the only fraud in whole story!
As well as the rest of local public. All the blame on me and my ignorance and bad intentions.
...
Than i finally realized that it is very dangerous to tell the truth. Especially when it is opposed to peoples dreams.
You can do anything... but you don't spoil the daydreamers dreams! No way!
By telling my honest opinion on what i experienced with damn Sirius; i gained so many enemies.
All the mentioned "persons". As well as Sirius producer. As well as most of the local forums public.
I was the only one to blame.

[Carl-NC]

Funfinder, does it bother you that OKM sells scam devices?

What I don't understand is:
Why those victims who bought that Bionic crap don't sue the sh*t out of OKM
and send technical experts if they are personally not competent enough ?!

This is Human Psychology 101. When you understand the answer to this, you will understand how a majority of fraud goes unreported.

[Funfinder]

> Even such irrelevant detail provided them so huge attention and hell of a sale of those first lunatic devices.

Seems that you are the same disqualified as kt315! These devices might be too expensive but they
do a better job than any of those lousy shallow-find 30cm coil motion IB detectors in the world!

Try to detect a metal object at 4m distance with the XP Deus for which the Nokta Golden King
and the Jeohunter only needs its 45cm coil. The only problem is the weight of the coil and
the detection-value-range drift but now with standard available reset-button no problem.

And I mean that you should find that object @ 4m with 45cm coil attached to the XP Deus
and you will for sure not detect it !!! This little fully overpriced smartphone-toy. *laugh*

Ivconic, you are disqualified and dismissed! I no longer care about guys like you and kt315
which from my angle of view are the same stupid als LRL-buyers! *laugh*
Completely incompetent and its not even possible to inform them correct because
they live inside their pure wishthinking-conviction-world like priests or clairvoyants! *laugh*

[Funfinder]

Haha, great - Carl intervenes. *laugh*

---

What we learn here is that criminals must use camouflage so they look decent.
OKM also offers real working detectors - WOW, fantastic!
Politicians also sometimes make good decisions - WOW, this makes em saints!

What I don't understand is:
Why those victims who bought that Bionic crap don't sue the sh*t out of OKM
and send technical experts if they are personally not competent enough ?!

Or must we send some guys from this forum because whole Germany,
this fantastic nation full of inventors and engineers, is too stupid to test
such ridiculous fantasy-machines? I doubt it! *laugh*

Usually people have a much lower "warning-threshold" as would be needed
to avoid all kind of problems in life - so before they throw out 10.000 bucks
they first inform themselves if its really worth the "loss", but some seems
to be totally incapable and wanna learn it the directly hard painful way.

Anyway: The German state itself has the duty to prevent the citizens from
crime so it has the obligation to investigate companies which sell products
which doesn't have the claimed features! Point.

And these OKM freaks are no top-secret military-technology-inventors which
are allowed to hide anything !!! They are also not selling some super-hitec
no other electronically-skilled persons would be unable to understand !!!

As punishment for hiding their dirty fairy-tale-machines inbetween real-working
stuff they are no longer allowed to have any OKM company at all in the future!

[Qiaozhi]

The important thing is to not undervalue your work.