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Sonar survey of the Ohio River bottom in vicinity of Cave-in-Rock, Illinois.

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  • Sonar survey of the Ohio River bottom in vicinity of Cave-in-Rock, Illinois.

    I have been trying to generate interest in performing a sonar survey of the Ohio River bottom in the vicinity of Cave-in-Rock, Illinois, which is located in the central United States. What I'm searching for are piles of ballast stones. I believe these stones would have been off-loaded from Mediterranean merchant ships between 2,000 and 5,000 years ago. I'm following evidence of ancient Copper trade that occurred between America and the Mediterranean during the "Bronze age." 10,000 ancient copper mines located in Michigan produced approximately 1,700,000,000 pounds of pure "Native" copper during this period. I suspect the copper was mined by indigenous native American people and transported by small portable water craft from the Michigan peninsula through the Great Lakes to the Maumee-Wabash Portage (an 8 mile portage between the St. Mary's and Little River near present day Fort Wayne, Indiana). From the portage it would have went down the Wabash River to the Ohio to be traded to Mediterranean settlers (at Cave-in-Rock) for textile trade goods. Cave-in-Rock is a State Park that features a large cave with a colorful history. It was reported by early river travelers that this cave was covered (walls and ceiling) with European Petroglyphs. The upper level (currently sealed off) still has petroglyphs.

    This location has a host of ancient ruins in the area that are apparently of Mediterranean origin. The river at this site is the only place in the region where the banks have remained fixed throughout the millennia. The river depth would also have been favorable at this location. I would be willing to perform this search myself but I know nothing about side-scan sonar. I'm hoping to locate individuals with expertise in this technology who might guide me in this effort. What equipment would work best for locating piles of rocks? I have generated some interest at the Geology department of the University of Illinois at Urbana in this project. What I need is Sonar.

    Can this equipment be rented at reasonable cost or can it be constructed? I'm hoping to gather sufficient evidence at this site that will interest academics to follow up on my work. If recovered stones could be analyzed and confirmed as having originated in Europe then sufficient momentum should be available to solicit funding of an electrical survey of the entire river system in search of piles of copper from ancient wrecks. Find the copper and you have a 2-5,000 year old Mediterranean ship wreck in the interior of North America. Now that would change things a bit.

    Any suggestions?

    Tom Walter
    [email protected]

  • #2
    Re: Sonar survey of the Ohio River bottom in vicinity of Cave-in-Rock, Illinois.

    If anything was found there,the USA would have to do away with Columbus day.That lookslike a great project,you can rent side scan sonar systems,or you can buy one,they arent cheep,or you can build one,read all the threads here,theres enough info here to put one together.

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    • #3
      Re: Sonar survey of the Ohio River bottom in vicinity of Cave-in-Rock, Illinois.

      Tom,

      I have river experience in that area using my side scan sonar, having located several barges in the vicinity of Weston, Kentucky, approximately 16 miles or so east from Cave-In-Rock. The problem with finding anything in the Ohio or Mississippi Rivers is that after a few weeks the sediment will cover up everything. I have seen a number of barges (35 x 180 ft) that were almost completely covered up within a month. So, finding any trace of ballast stones after 2000 years is going to be pretty much impossible by using a side scan sonar. In addition, these rivers continue to change their routes over many years. What was the river hundreds of years ago may now be on land.
      You might try to determine the path of the river +2000 years ago. If that area is now on land, perhaps the use of a deep seeking metal detector or Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) might be able to detect the concentration of ballast stones. However, the depth of sediment over these piles will be the limiting factor with the GPR and metal detecting equipment. Good luck with your project
      Jim

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      • #4
        Re: Sonar survey of the Ohio River bottom in vicinity of Cave-in-Rock, Illinois.

        The river has actually been fixed at Cave-in-rock for a very long time. This is one of the few places were the river has actually remained fixed. One reply to my post pointed out that sub bottom CHIRP sonar is probably the best tool for this particular job. I expect the ballast stones to be beneath the silt at what ever depth their respective specific gravity dictates. I'm trying to obtain data on the geology and morphology of the river bottom at this location. A dredge would be required to bring any stones to the surface.

        Thanks for the insights everyone.

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        • #5
          dredging the ohio

          what ever became of your quest?

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          • #6
            Re: Sonar survey of the Ohio River bottom in vicinity of Cave-in-Rock, Illinois

            what ever happened to your quest? were you ever able to get the equipment you need? If so have you published your findings anywhere? Anything to help prove pre-colombian transoceanic contact....

            GregJ

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