Pulse Detector Depth Proformance

[ionut_mtb]

He has made a 14" coil using home made litz wire and used carbon fibre tape for the screening and he has got the coil capacitance down...and the coil only weighs about 250g and is ultra light from what he has told me...i saw photo of coil and it looks very good...and he said coil inductance is around 380 uH but has managed to get the coil working at 9 uS...i think he has got good sens on small gold...he claims 24" depth on a 9ct medium size gold ring like a whisper...him and his two friends have the edge now on the beach as one of his friends has a whites tdi sl and has done very well with this machine...with the machines ive made i cannot really compete and some of these guys go out detecting nearly every day.

i have made an 8" 3dss coil, selfshielded?? (chance pi coil by baum7154) don't know the exact inductance, 1.2mm diam stranded litz wire with pvc insulation, so quite few ohms and with baracuda PI goes up to 30cm for a coin, and very sensitive to small stuff. It goes down under 10us as i measured with the scope (novice, bought it 2 days ago). I will try to make in the future one coil double the size (16") and i'm expecting double the distance for targets. i'm not interested in nugget hunting so, for the gold rings i thing will have good depth.

[6666]

He has made a 14" coil using home made litz wire and used carbon fibre tape for the screening and he has got the coil capacitance down...and the coil only weighs about 250g and is ultra light from what he has told me...i saw photo of coil and it looks very good...and he said coil inductance is around 380 uH but has managed to get the coil working at 9 uS...i think he has got good sens on small gold...he claims 24" depth on a 9ct medium size gold ring like a whisper...him and his two friends have the edge now on the beach as one of his friends has a whites tdi sl and has done very well with this machine...with the machines ive made i cannot really compete and some of these guys go out detecting nearly every day.

Hi Dave would you mind asking your friend the details and brand of that carbon fibre tape please , sounds like it could be interesting to try out.

[bklein]

I find it hard to believe that most of the rings are too deep for a surf pi. I would get depression too if I had to dig 20" for every target - I'd give up this hobby quick. It is better to have a detector with discrimination and reasonable depth than one without and goes too deep. I think you will find it is more a matter of specific hunting area, then the area covered - either because the other guys get out more often than you do, don't dig questionable targets, have a larger diameter or bigfoot coil, etc. A CTX is a well respected and successful detector in the UK but a pi senses deeper and handles black sand better. A pi is a fine lightweight machine for you. Maybe give up beaches and hit parks, concert sites, or old properties instead for a change of pace. Just try and find places not loaded with pulltabs and aluminum or your depression might get worse. That Whites Classic1 can at least discriminate out the pulltabs - it actually is decent for recent find hunting. Maybe bring a ring with you and test where you hunt so you have confidence you can find others just like it within depth range.

[daverave]

what size have his coil? the bigger the coil, bigger the depth. of course not sensible for small gold items like earrings.

He has made a 14" coil using home made litz wire and used carbon fibre tape for the screening and he has got the coil capacitance down...and the coil only weighs about 250g and is ultra light from what he has told me...i saw photo of coil and it looks very good...and he said coil inductance is around 380 uH but has managed to get the coil working at 9 uS...i think he has got good sens on small gold...he claims 24" depth on a 9ct medium size gold ring like a whisper...him and his two friends have the edge now on the beach as one of his friends has a whites tdi sl and has done very well with this machine...with the machines ive made i cannot really compete and some of these guys go out detecting nearly every day.

[ionut_mtb]

i spoke today to the detectorist who made his own deep detector.....and he told me that part of his detector is based on the GS 5 but without the ground cancelling cause he is a beach detectorist...he showed me photos of the design where he has used plug in modules for each stage of the circuit...it uses an 18v battery pack...he also claims he got the capacitance of the coil low by say winding about five turns then he put an insulator material on top of windings and wound another say five turns by crossing over the first turns and st arting again from the start...then repeats again until he gets correct number of turns...he claims to get 24" now on a medium sized 9ct gold ring...he has got the thermal noise down to a low level...he is going to add discrimination modules to ID certain types of targets... but i think he cannot get around the iron problem so will use something maybe called a ferrous spear...to be honest it will be very hard now to compete with him and his two friends...as im not an everyday detectorist cause of my mood swings and anxiety...but im really trying now to push myself more and a very kind person has lent me a good pulse detector to try and if i can find some treasure will help cheer me up

what size have his coil? the bigger the coil, bigger the depth. of course not sensible for small gold items like earrings.

[daverave]

Sounds like history repeating itself. In the 1990's I designed a Goldscan 4 detector with GB, then left off the GB and called that model Goldquest. I then uprated one of those with a 24V TX and had a separate RX winding with about 2 x the turns of the TX to increase the RX signal. That was the BeachBurner that I mentioned before. If I ever get the time, a BeachBurner 2 might be worth a try. You can also warm your hands on the coil on a cold day. For the moment though it will be interesting to see what the Vallon can do with a 15in coil. Still have to make the coil winding though and pot it.

There used to be a device called Ferrous Hound which was attached to a PI to give iron identification. Made in Australia by Reeve Jones. I don't know how effective it was.

Eric.

Hi Eric...have you considered trying a 15 x 12 coil with the vallon...i used a 15 x12 sef coil cover to make a coil for one of my surf pi and i noticed the depth increased compared to a round coil.

[daverave]

Hi Eric....i remember the ferrous hound and was very expensive...as far that i know that company does not exist anymore which is a shame...cause the ferrous hound with a good goldscan would be unbeatable combination...this guy told me that he is very impressed with the design of the GS 5 and i think a beach burner 2 will be an awsome machine !!!!!!! weather permitting will be going on local beach tomorrow and see what i can find.

[Ferric Toes]

i spoke today to the detectorist who made his own deep detector.....and he told me that part of his detector is based on the GS 5 but without the ground cancelling cause he is a beach detectorist...he showed me photos of the design where he has used plug in modules for each stage of the circuit...it uses an 18v battery pack...he also claims he got the capacitance of the coil low by say winding about five turns then he put an insulator material on top of windings and wound another say five turns by crossing over the first turns and st arting again from the start...then repeats again until he gets correct number of turns...he claims to get 24" now on a medium sized 9ct gold ring...he has got the thermal noise down to a low level...he is going to add discrimination modules to ID certain types of targets... but i think he cannot get around the iron problem so will use something maybe called a ferrous spear...to be honest it will be very hard now to compete with him and his two friends...as im not an everyday detectorist cause of my mood swings and anxiety...but im really trying now to push myself more and a very kind person has lent me a good pulse detector to try and if i can find some treasure will help cheer me up

Sounds like history repeating itself. In the 1990's I designed a Goldscan 4 detector with GB, then left off the GB and called that model Goldquest. I then uprated one of those with a 24V TX and had a separate RX winding with about 2 x the turns of the TX to increase the RX signal. That was the BeachBurner that I mentioned before. If I ever get the time, a BeachBurner 2 might be worth a try. You can also warm your hands on the coil on a cold day. For the moment though it will be interesting to see what the Vallon can do with a 15in coil. Still have to make the coil winding though and pot it.

There used to be a device called Ferrous Hound which was attached to a PI to give iron identification. Made in Australia by Reeve Jones. I don't know how effective it was.

Eric.

[daverave]

i spoke today to the detectorist who made his own deep detector.....and he told me that part of his detector is based on the GS 5 but without the ground cancelling cause he is a beach detectorist...he showed me photos of the design where he has used plug in modules for each stage of the circuit...it uses an 18v battery pack...he also claims he got the capacitance of the coil low by say winding about five turns then he put an insulator material on top of windings and wound another say five turns by crossing over the first turns and st arting again from the start...then repeats again until he gets correct number of turns...he claims to get 24" now on a medium sized 9ct gold ring...he has got the thermal noise down to a low level...he is going to add discrimination modules to ID certain types of targets... but i think he cannot get around the iron problem so will use something maybe called a ferrous spear...to be honest it will be very hard now to compete with him and his two friends...as im not an everyday detectorist cause of my mood swings and anxiety...but im really trying now to push myself more and a very kind person has lent me a good pulse detector to try and if i can find some treasure will help cheer me up

[daverave]

Daverave what country you are residing now?

hello jladre....i live in the UK

[jladre]

Daverave what country you are residing now?

[ivconic]

The problem with large pots made out of hammered copper is that they are targets with almost the longest time constant amongst all targets. When GB is done the very long time constant signals will tend to get on a vector opposite to the soil vector which makes them undetectable. This condition is strongly enhanced by higher sampling frequencies and fast recovery systems meaning these two can not detect hammered copper targets ever at depth.
So the only way to properly detect a hammered copper targets at great depth is a sampling frequency bellow 6kHz and slow recovery speed of the electronics.

At high frequency I have observed a very odd effect with these hammered copper buckets. At 14kHz they 20 cm bucket respond very well up to about 2/3 of the detecting range up to 80 cm or so. Above this limit the signal gets literally reversed in polarity and the targets sounds when getting out of the coil with a faint audio and it is effectively undetectable at that range.

These type of targets will best detect at about 4.5kHz with big search coils.

PI does not respond well to these objects. Lorentz have done some advance in their search methods and can detect them fairly well at good depth.

In my opinion all of the mentioned above goes for bronze statues and any other massive bronze and copper objects. Very big hoards of coins are easier to detect, but are still a long time constant signals.

Also higher reactive component of the soil makes the detecting of these targets even more difficult.

Alright, that's nice explanation, makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

"...Above this limit the signal gets literally reversed in polarity and the targets sounds when getting out of the coil with a faint audio and it is effectively undetectable at that range..."

Yes, this is visible at detectors behavior. There is a noticeable moment of reversing, more or less visible depending on metal detector type.
I can only add that this ( i would call it ) "phenomena" is also present at some massive and fat coins too.
Against all common logic; such rare coins sometimes acts as pretty tough target.
But usually such coins are having higher percentage of copper in alloy. Not "good" and "noble" bronze, as we are explaining it in our local vocabulary.
Usually those are coins from late Byzantine period when they mixed more copper and less silver in such alloys.

[Nexus]

Ok, it is obvious "comic" in his behavior, no doubts in that.
Aside this funny attempt.
I was always wanted to clarify few facts about such type of copper. Old one. Manually crafted and manually hammered copper.
Because i also noticed that it is very tough target at some metal detector models.
So i tried a small investigation. But got no results. All i learned from old craftsman was that there are two type of such copper; "male" and "female" ???!!!
And that's as far as i discovered.
One of those is very easy target, causing strong detector response and the other one is quite opposite; tough target causing almost none response at metal detectors.
I don't know about Nexus, but i know very well about Delta Pulse; it is giving absolute NONE response at such targets!?? And i can't explain why and how come?!
Several years ago me and my crew made small testing bed in backyard. We buried very large pot crafted manually from such material, probably 200-300 years old.
It was some 60-70cm diameter, very large "target", buried at exactly 1m depth.
Delta Pulse with 70cm round coil produced NONE response on it!? So as Cscope 1220B!? So as White's Eagle IIC!? So as few other models!?
We tried all the possible adjustments at those detectors. No results.
I am sure it is made from copper. Old one. Manually hammered, crafted... don't know proper term for such works. It is metal. It is heavy. Having few visible scratches on surface, showing dark yellow almost red color.
It is having patina too. All the features as any other type of copper.
But it remains undetectable despite its size and not that large depth in soil.
How come? I can't tell.
Few meters away from that spot there is another target buried. Silver coated plate, 30cm diameter. Buried at 70cm in soil. Very easy target at most of detectors!
Latest model that i have tried was FelezJoo PI. Easily detects silver plate. Not detecting copper pot at all!?
So... what to say?
I am having no explanations on this yet.

The problem with large pots made out of hammered copper is that they are targets with almost the longest time constant amongst all targets. When GB is done the very long time constant signals will tend to get on a vector opposite to the soil vector which makes them undetectable. This condition is strongly enhanced by higher sampling frequencies and fast recovery systems meaning these two can not detect hammered copper targets ever at depth.
So the only way to properly detect a hammered copper targets at great depth is a sampling frequency bellow 6kHz and slow recovery speed of the electronics.

At high frequency I have observed a very odd effect with these hammered copper buckets. At 14kHz my 20 cm HC bucket respond very well up to about 2/3 of the detecting range around 80 cm or so in air. Above this limit the signal gets literally reversed in polarity and the targets sounds when getting out of the coil with a faint audio and it is effectively undetectable at that range. At 5.7kHz and slow recovery speed the same HC bucket is detectable all the way up to 110 cm and at 1 meter in the ground with a signal stronger than in air. HF coils can not sniff this bucket out of the ground at that depth no matter the coil size.

These type of targets will best detect at about 4.5kHz with big search coils, but all other signals will be rather miserable at depth.

PI does not respond well to these objects. Lorentz have done some advance in their search methods and can detect them fairly well at good depth.

In my opinion all of the mentioned above goes for bronze statues and any other massive bronze and copper objects. Very big hoards of coins are easier to detect, but are still a long time constant signals.

Also higher reactive component of the soil makes the detecting of these targets even more difficult.

The best search coils for locating HC objects are the concentric type.

[ivconic]

This video is meant for slander, nothing more. That same You Tube user (participant of Pulse Relic distribution) have produced in the past a number of distasteful ugly videos against many brands and people.
Nexus Bonanza detects copper very well, but not in Hot Rocks position of the GB switch and this is how the detector is set on this video, intentionally.
In Hot Rocks position Bonanza will reject not only Iron Ore and all hot rocks , but also all large metal objects, because it is designed to work in this way with this setting. The Hot Rocks setting is meant for search of small gold coins and possibly gold nuggets without trouble of anything else.
Every Nexus model can reject all large metal targets and detect only the small ones. It is described under "Special Modes of Operation" section of the User Manual. Apparently this setting is been used for slander now by the suppliers of Pulse Relic metal detector.
It is a common low practice in Eastern Europe to slander someone else in order to elevate their own products.

Ok, it is obvious "comic" in his behavior, no doubts in that.
Aside this funny attempt.
I was always wanted to clarify few facts about such type of copper. Old one. Manually crafted and manually hammered copper.
Because i also noticed that it is very tough target at some metal detector models.
So i tried a small investigation. But got no results. All i learned from old craftsman was that there are two types of such copper; "male" and "female" ???!!!
And that's as far as i discovered.
One of those is very easy target, causing strong detector response and the other one is quite opposite; tough target causing almost none response at metal detectors.
I don't know about Nexus, but i know very well about Delta Pulse; it is giving absolute NONE response at such targets!?? And i can't explain why and how come?!
Several years ago me and my crew made small testing bed in backyard. We buried very large pot crafted manually from such material, probably 200-300 years old.
It was some 60-70cm diameter, very large "target", buried at exactly 1m depth.
Delta Pulse with 70cm round coil produced NONE response on it!? So as Cscope 1220B!? So as White's Eagle IIC!? So as few other models!?
We tried all the possible adjustments at those detectors. No results.
I am sure it is made from copper. Old one. Manually hammered, crafted... don't know proper term for such works. It is metal. It is heavy. Having few visible scratches on surface, showing dark yellow almost red color.
It is having patina too. All the features as any other type of copper.
But it remains undetectable despite its size and not that large depth in soil.
How come? I can't tell.
Few meters away from that spot there is another target buried. Silver coated plate, 30cm diameter. Buried at 70cm in soil. Very easy target at most of detectors!
Latest model that i have tried was FelezJoo PI. Easily detects silver plate. Not detecting copper pot at all!?
So... what to say?
I am having no explanations on this yet.

[daverave]

Its always your personal decision to see the things in life as losses or as gains!

But as long as you think about losses you never will be happy! LOL

Simply spoken, you really need some: "Forget it"-attitude.

If Pam Anderson don't wanna be my wife: Scr*w it, she isn't it worth anyway! LOL

Life's a crazy piece of bullsh*t - ending with death - WOW - fantastic! LOL
But because we don't wanna suffer we're trying to make the best out of it.

And if your wife has it's own problems - hell - I would toss her because this is no useful "joint-venture".
A couple has to give comfort and support to each other, this is no damned one way road!

Don't feel yourself offended but I'm rather the tough "uncle doc" instead of the soft to everything yes and amen saying
psychologist! LOL
The world keeps on turning and doesn't cares about personalities who are living in the " good ol' " past
or seeing everything as an unbearable big loss! And only you alone can keep yourself ongoing in life.
If you are laughing the world laughs with you, if you are crying you are crying all alone!
We all lose relatives and friends but we have to be happy with what they gave us and not being sad
for the whole eternal life because they're gone! They wouldn't want that, too.

Lad, you really have to learn to look on the bright side of life, again! LOL
Otherwise: The sea makes no prisoners ... But we will not think that far.
And if all the indoctrinated emotionality drives you insane you must find a way to adjust it at some acceptable level.

Hi Funfinder....many thanks for your help to me...im just one of those people who find it hard to let go of the past...im not a strong person in my mind and find it hard to overcome things in life....even though i have a wonderful wife and kids i find it hard to be happy cause the past over shadows me. hobbies like electronics and detecting are a good way of trying to forget my problems but im struggling at present to carry on trying to experiment or make anything detector wise....when people like the guy i mentioned keep boasting of how their latest project can go deeper it just makes me feel worst in myself cause i cannot compete and feel like giving up !!! i appreciate all your comments everyone on this site and your understanding.