Dominate Freqs of New Vanquish??

[Skippy]

Though I've not unpotted a Coiltek EQX coil, I saw some good X-rays ( posted on the DetectorProspector Forum by animal vet 'Strick' ) a few years ago, and it's clear the pre-amp PCB is ML's, and they must supply them to Coiltek ready-assembled/ pre-programmed.

[Altra]

I opened a Coiltek coil made for the Equinox. Inside I found a Minelab pcb. Just a guess? Minelab may license other coil makers by selling them the encrypted pcb and cable? This keeps tight controls on the tech, while giving the appearance of competition.

[cristiano.sar]

Maybe I got it mixed up...
but I think I saw somewhere that Minelab now installs small pcbs in their coils with microcontrollers that give feedback to the machine and if that feedback isn't legit; the machine will not work with that coil.
Which makes making DIY coils almost impossible.
This was done probably for several valid reasons. But it's no consolation for us hobbyists.

regarding this (PCB inside the coil), how Coiltek and other manufacturers make coils for VLF Minelab detectors?

[ivconic]

Got smaller coil too:

[ivconic]

Quote:"Is it possible that a thick piece of iron, a thicker piece of aluminum as well as a "thick" Roman bronze coin will produce the same phase shift?"
Iron targets will usually give three peaks in signal amplitude: one in the central location, the other two are 'inverted', and occur when the target is roughly below each of the two DD coils. Non-ferrous targets only give the one peak. Presumably one of the issues with 'large deep iron' is the tendency for the two side-peaks to be suppressed relative to the strong main peak, giving the false non-ferrous ID.

That's true.
This can be heard with most of the detectors as well.
But with Vanquish in AM is very noticeable and distinguishable.
That's because of the very good choice they made picking just right low tone frequency and volume.
Low tone is weak, "soft" and very low pitch, while the "center" is high pitch, sharp and louder.
I guess I can adjust the Deus to simulate this too.
Although it would be hard to beat ML audio "softness" for a low tone.

[Skippy]

Quote:"Is it possible that a thick piece of iron, a thicker piece of aluminum as well as a "thick" Roman bronze coin will produce the same phase shift?"
Iron targets will usually give three peaks in signal amplitude: one in the central location, the other two are 'inverted', and occur when the target is roughly below each of the two DD coils. Non-ferrous targets only give the one peak. Presumably one of the issues with 'large deep iron' is the tendency for the two side-peaks to be suppressed relative to the strong main peak, giving the false non-ferrous ID.

[ivconic]

One question for the experts: does the better conductor in the target correlate with the phase shift it will cause?
I think that with modern detectors there is less and less talk about phase shift and more and more the terms "better or worse conductor" are adopted.
And that with many audio and VDI it is first based on the conductivity of the target.
Is it possible that a thick piece of iron, a thicker piece of aluminum as well as a "thick" Roman bronze coin will produce the same phase shift?
The fact is that all three are "better" conductors. But do they simultaneously produce the same phase shift?
I haven't tried this myself in the workshop, it just didn't occur to me.
Very few of the truly intelligent among you will understand why I am asking this...

[ivconic]

My second outing with the 340 didn't disappoint either.
I found 4 Roman coins in a field where it is increasingly difficult to find anything.
Now I can already draw some conclusions.
Miracles do not exist and do not happen.
There is no magic.
The same problems that plague all other detectors; Vanquish is also suffering from.
With a note that Multi-IQ technology has brought a new quality, which is reflected first of all in accuracy and extraordinary stability in audio and VDI.
And what are the objections?
It's shallower than Deus 1, but in 80% of cases it doesn't matter. Because my typical targets are 5-20cm deep, most of them.
Very solid iron is a very good conductor. It will announce it in the highest pitch and give it a high VDI. Same as Deus1.
Thicker pieces of aluminum will give the same audio and VDI as a group of assorted coins.
The masking problem is still solved to a large extent, and this is where the Vanquish is far ahead of most detectors I've worked with so far.
Deus 1 successfully overcomes the masking problem if the target is a thick and large bronze coin.
But if the coin is small, thin; cannot overcome the masking problem; Vanquish can.
In All Metal mode, the Deus 1 also has an iron response similar to the Vanquish, but with the Vanquish it is much clearer and easier to detect.
Deus is too nervous, unstable and it's hard to find your way in a bunch of different sounds.
At Vanquish it is better solved. There is no confusion. Very nice behavior.
Conclusion; in most cases it is better to take the Deus 1 to the field because it is more versatile and much deeper.
But in some cases Vanquish will shine on terrains where Deus 1 is totally unusable.
And there are many such fields and cases lately.
I'd rather carry both with me all the time and switch as needed. But my backpack is tight and not enough for both. I will have to get a bigger backpack.
Until I get the money to buy Manticore. And that's on a long stick...

[ivconic]

Minelab does not deviate from its old habit of using the same pcb for the whole series of models.
340 and 540, 100% identical pcb, the 340 does not have a "radio chip" and probably the upgrade to the 540 model is disabled.
Everything else seems identical to me.





I didn't even try to update/upgrade because the USB is deeply "hidden" in the box, but in advance I don't think it would even work.
They are not stupid in ML.
They probably adjusted some subtle little thing to make it impossible.
Or is the STM chip such that it has an encrypted part of the flash in which the type, ID and permissions are stored...

[ivconic]

Maybe I got it mixed up...
but I think I saw somewhere that Minelab now installs small pcbs in their coils with microcontrollers that give feedback to the machine and if that feedback isn't legit; the machine will not work with that coil.
Which makes making DIY coils almost impossible.
This was done probably for several valid reasons. But it's no consolation for us hobbyists.

[Mario-j23]

Concentric coils are not available

[pito]

To eliminate double sound try concentric coil, DD = not symmetrical, concentric = symmetrical = doesn't matter which way you swing. That should give more reliable VDI

[ivconic]

The human mind is a strange thing. Now that I've seen how good Vanquish is... I'm starting to dream of Manticore!



P.S. Marketing "strategists" in ML are very corrupt robbers! A wild bunch!

[EL NINO]

Ivica ... it can be seen that you had success with the first search from Vanquish...

You have also captured the technical essence of the Vanquish 340... It is really quite well preset / elimination of field conductivity in the programs, setting the iron bias to such a level that it could effectively eliminate botlecap, so that you could eliminate a sufficient number of unwanted signals.. / but itself the multi-IQ technology always guarantees a stable ID in a sufficient range of depth..even on relatively mineralized terrain..
Features that are really good for the price..

a certain minus can be its reaction to larger iron, for example /small hammer or similar, or an axe../, which can give a good signal in ID 15-20... but Equinox also has this minus..

[ivconic]

This is a field I have been visiting for about 30 years. Although it is not easily noticed in the video; it is a very steep hill, covered with forest, the ascent is very tiring, ankles hurt easily.
At the very top there was a smaller fort that was probably demolished in some way and all the material was thrown in all directions down the hill.
It is also not easy to notice in the video that the surface is not just soil.
There is already a layer of over 1m of earth mixed with the material from that tower, a lot of crushed ceramics as well as too many "hotrock" stones.
All this was covered by dry leaves and new grass. It is one of the most difficult terrains (both for detector and human) that I have in the area.
Suffice it to say, I haven't found anything there with Deus in the last couple of years. I've been searching all day and I can't find a single coin.
Deus behaves extremely "neurotic" there, it constantly produce chatters that are so frequent and strong that no useful signal can be discerned between them.
The worst possible conditions and terrain that has long been "desolated" and for several years no one wants to come there anymore.
Ideal for a real test of a new detector.
And this is where the Vanquish performed very well. Pretty calm. There were almost no false signals.
I wasn't very happy there today. Barely three rotten coins. And a dozen worthless metals.
At the very beginning of the recording, the ML340 detected the worst possible finding; slag, something that is too much present on that field.
What is slag? Waste, which is created due to melting and excessive temperature exposed to metal, stone, wood... usual from such ancient buildings.
Or it is a product of some purposeful metal melting. So the debris simply spilled down the hill.
The difference between slag and ordinary rusty iron is BIG in the eyes of the detector!
Because slag produces a signal similar to non-ferrous metal when it gets under the middle of the coil.
I discovered a good method to identify slag with the ML340.
I set the "Disc" to "All Metal" (no notch) and move the coil a little wider left and right. And you can clearly hear the lowest tone from the sides and the high tone only in the middle.
Slag is a very deceptive target for Deus as well. And even worse for weaker detector models.
And all the rest of the unwanted signals, especially "hotrock" stones have a low tone response and the differences are only visible by the VDI number which goes more or less in the minus.
What to say at the end of the day?
Minelab Vanquish 340 is definitely a "keeper"!
It's worth saving it, it's worth taking it to similar places where Deus runs rampant.
And there are many such places in my area.
Conclusion: very satisfied!