an alternative

[Riss]

https://youtu.be/jb3eMAZjyTg- it will be very interesting if someone puts this model on the oscilloscope...

[ivconic]

I don't like to repeat myself and often sound negative... but isn't the general "madness" about design noticeable?
"Copying school", as if everyone copies everything.
And the gripe I have with that design is always the same; the coil connector is too high. An ideal "trap" for entanglement in the branches of bushes.
And the hand is not free. There's always a cable to catch your hand on.
Same thing with ML, Nokta and several other models.
In particular, this Rutus model seems to have been made in Nokta or by Nokta.
I will not even guess about the quality of the work itself, I bet in advance that it is nothing special or different from similar ones.
You see one - you've seen them all.
Even... I don't have a performance problem so much as a look and design problem.
Simply, that design is not suitable for "professional" searching. Heavy duty modes and working conditions.
It might be ok for flat and long beaches, flat and long fields, etc.
Another thing I don't like at all is the presentation of options with a lot of icons on the display.
Those little graphics are often very similar. And it takes a lot of effort to remember everything.
I recently had the opportunity to work with Nokta Legend. I'm terribly annoyed by the options presented like that.
As far as performance is concerned; Nokta Legend is a total disappointment. I have almost the same objections as when working with Simplex.
Quite unstable and inaccurate VDI. Rather unstable audio behavior.
And when swinging and crossing the coil is repeated many times; Legend is not able to stabilize the VDI number to one value or one narrow range of values,
so that the user has at least some insight into what is in the soil.
I remember Rutus from a long time ago, when they made detectors in the DIY lookalike variant.
In principle, they are not bad, but they are nothing new that has not been seen before.
Poland is a large country with a large population. It makes sense for such a country to have its own manufacturer that will take the largest part of the market.
And entering the USA market is not so easy, it is hampered by various obstacles. So I understand why the US is not a prime market for them.
There are so many buyers in Poland itself, waiting for the detector.
The price of 800e becomes somewhat "standard". I think that price range was triggered by the advent of XP ORX (which is now slightly cheaper).
And that is some approximate price that figures in the consumer's mind for that level of product.
Of course; I personally think that it is also completely wrong.
I am sure of one thing; Rutus will sell very well in Poland. Because it's a huge market.
And Poles are known as great patriots. They will prefer to buy "domestic".
Maybe it's a clever way for Nokta to enter their market like that!?
Turks have been using Germany for a long time to lay an egg in someone else's nest like a cuckoo bird!
I know "a million" Turkish products that say "Made in Germany" !!!
The established metal detector for veterinary medicine, which is also "Made in Germany" and is widely sold as such in the EU,
is sold through state institutions as a "mandatory tool" that the Ministry of Agriculture must put into practice through a large European distributor of this equipment,
some private German company... that detector is actually a poor toy that is made "secretly" in Turkey.
Because the owner of the German company received a good "offer" from the Turks.
I discovered this quite by accident a couple of years ago, during the covid lock down; when a young veterinarian came to me and asked me to suggest a good detector
that would be able to detect a piece of cellular wire and similar pieces in a cow's rumen.
This is a crazy fun anecdote (not for cows) that I just have to tell here!
In his bag he brought a pile of various metal scraps, rolled pieces of barbed wire, steel needles for stringing tobacco, nails, etc.
He tells me that he got it all out of various cows during surgical operations.
My goodness... how the cows will eat it, chew it up and swallow it! I asked him.
This is because the cow has no pain receptors in its mouth and tongue and does not feel anything.
Cow grinds and chews everything and swallows like some stupid machine!
That metal then gets into the rumen and gets stuck there because the exit from the rumen is narrow.
The sharp metal then gets stuck in the walls of the rumen and is often pushed even harder by the new food at the next feeding.
Possibly at one point the pressure is so strong that the metal breaks through the abdominal wall and begins to penetrate further towards the heart,
which is very close there.
And in the end it happens that it gets stuck in the heart.
To my surprise; he told me that the cow does not die immediately but is able to survive for days even weeks with that problem.
Symptoms are increased temperature, poor nutrition and malaise.
If the veterinarian notices all this in time and starts the surgical operation; the cow can be saved.
But these symptoms can also be due to some other disease. Well, the only reliable method of determining this problem is; use of metal detectors.
On that occasion, he also brought that "German" metal detector. And he complained about it being "shallow" and not performing well.
And 500e was paid for it through the Ministry of Agriculture.
The EU imposes very strict rules and regulations.
One of them is that certain industrial equipment can be purchased only and exclusively through authorized suppliers.
This is especially important for countries that are not yet EU members and intend to become one and are already in the process of harmonizing standards with the EU.
So you can understand the rest of the story yourself.
The local Ministry of Agriculture was conditioned to import equipment according to EU standards.
And no less than from that German "institution", which is in fact a private company that sells various means, tools and medicine for veterinary medicine.
Everything is according to the principle "you have to" if you want to join the EU... and you scratch my back and I will scratch yours.
And that's how a miserable, bad and senseless metal detector experienced European fame and a price of 500e... although after a short inspection I didn't see
anything worth more than 50e!
So we did a series of tests with that detector and with the steel waste that the guy brought.
The results were devastating, it could not detect the largest pieces more than 10-12cm in the air.
The young veterinarian told me that this is the main problem, because the thigh of the cow is "deep 20 cm and a little more" to the belly and heart.
And with bigger and fatter cows even more, even up to 30 cm. And the detector is not able to detect those metals in the rumen or in the heart.
Then we tested everything the same with Deus. Deus did a much better job. But even that was not good enough.
Then I remembered that I have a freshly made Pulse Star II in a closet somewhere.
Luckily, I already had a small 18cm coil for the Pulse Star II already pre-made.
So I could test in the room. Because a large coils picks up many disturbances from the room, but a small one does not.
And the Pulse Star II with the 18cm probe made a "miracle"!
It found all objects, even the smallest ones, at a distance of at least 25 cm, and many more than 35 cm away, with very clear, loud and clear detection.
Bingo! Hit!
The vet was delighted after trying through the "meat" detection; he placed the metal on the inside of his thigh and tried with the coil on the outside.
The detection was even better than in the air.
I interpret this to be because the signal passes through the tissue that is interwoven with blood vessels, "moisture" and mineral salts in the tissue, etc.
Mainly; the vet was delighted with the Pulse Star II and 18cm coil and immediately insisted on buying it.
I later researched in detail all the facts surrounding that "German" detector that they literally forcefully sell to veterinarians.
It wasn't easy. The tracks are very well hidden.
But after a few days of intensive research, I managed to discover that this detector is produced in Turkey by an unknown manufacturer.
Here... through my enthusiastic involvement in metal detectors, I accidentally came across this crazy story as well as some new knowledge and anecdotes.
I am not saying here that the new Rutus is actually a Turkish product. No, that's not my intention.
It would be frivolous on my part to even insinuate something like that without a single concrete proof.
I'm just giving that possibility a chance.
Turkey is the "new China" when it comes to many products sold under the EU label.
And why do Turks prefer to take Germany as the country from where they will market their products?
Well, for several reasons.
Germany has this status of good technology.
But another factor is that there are really many Turks living and working in Germany. The largest Turkish diaspora is in Germany.
To return to the topic of the appearance of the new Rutus detector.
It is obvious that it is a flood of the same or similar detectors.
We have been witnessing this for the last few years.
The deectors are all mostly very uniformed.
They don't provide anything significantly different or better comparing one to another.
But Rutus has a huge local market and will do a good job.

[Riss]

Everything you said about the cows and the Turks and the remarks about ergonomics is true. But I'm curious what the real efficiency of the Polish one detector is- on the field , because it is this Polish company that has been using the most important Deus 2 TX oscillogram for at least 6 years ...for multi-frequency detectors, signal processing software is of utmost importance .we can be sure that this year they will start using artificial intelligence to write very advanced software for a multi-frequency metal detector

[ivconic]

Sincerely; I am not too enthusiastic about multi-f nor AI.
A lot of water will flow... until one of those two proves to be really worth it.
There has been too much hype about AI in recent months.
Suddenly it was as if the whole world went crazy about it.
This is not because AI is truly revolutionary. Because it's not.
This is because in the last 10-20 years the world lives and survives on artificially induced sensations.
Internet, fast, global; brought a lot of good. But unfortunately also a lot of bad things.
If we removed one variable from the overall equation, money: things would become much more realistic and accurate.
As long as money is the final goal of all stories; all these stories are quite unrealistic.
For example, ChatGPT AI appeared some time ago, anyone could access and try it.
And for just a few weeks, it was the only way to see and try this novelty.
And then suddenly, overnight; the internet just exploded with a million different versions of AI doing this or that.
And each carries with it a subscription, a price, conditions... this or that.
And suddenly all the "bad students" in this world rushed to become "experts" in something.
The lazy and ignorant would like to become someone relevant overnight.
Up to this point, literally; AI is only worth so much.
...
Rutus... I heard about them x(x) years ago. But I didn't follow what they were doing in detail. I wish them luck and success.
But the external appearance and design of their latest model immediately tells me everything I wrote in the previous post.
...
I mean; that true science and progress do not need money, but the inner drive of creators, designers.
Idea, knowledge, education and long hard work. Nothing is achieved easily and overnight.
And for the last few years with all brands and models of metal detectors... all of that is not visible.
The only thing clearly visible is uninventive uniformity.

[ivconic]

When I watch a demo/video of a new model; I always ask myself one question:
if someone offers me for free, as a gift;
would i take that detector or a mint condition unboxed and unused Fisher 1265 or CZ5 or White's Eagle IIc or Minelab Musketeer (several other models too).
The answer in 99% of cases is the latter.
There is only one model on the market right now that I would rather choose; Deus II.
But not because I believe it is much better, but because I have Deus 1 and it makes sense that I would want to continue the tradition.

[kt315]

specific LCD, black and white, WHY??? why this men are not able to take COLOR UNIVERSAL display? Whites had used color LCD, so why
100 steps back now in the new detector???
NO INTEREST. trash hold. must die. take any modern i-phone, pull out color LCD from it AND MAKE -!

[ivconic]

Good point, I agree!
If you ask them that; a typical answer will be: "because color displays consume more current".
But that is not entirely correct and it is not decisive either.
Because although color displays consume slightly more current, which is true; however, this difference in consumption is not so great that it would be the real reason.
Especially today when Lipo batteries of small size and high capacity are present. That difference in consumption becomes even more irrelevant.
There is a really large selection of TFT color displays on the market in various sizes.
But for such detectors, sizes from 2.4" to 3.5" would be quite suitable.
I think the truth is quite different; that they deliberately use "custom" displays to maintain exclusivity around later servicing, part replacements, etc.
So that they can earn even more money later.
The most shameful example on this subject is what XP does with spare parts for its detectors.
All spare parts for all XP detectors are insanely expensive.
Without any logic, any sense and reason. The only reason is money grabbing!

[ivconic]

XP has disappointed me so much with its rogue-oriented "business policy" in recent years;
that I definitely decided to NEVER AGAIN spend even 1 cent on that festering gang of thieves!
Although I would very much like to have Deus II and join it with Deus 1... that's not going to happen.
Unless someone gives it to me. Money is not a problem, I have money for that much.
But I decided to boycott that band of thieves for the rest of my life!
Not only them, but also some others, which I will not mention here.
I'd rather wait for Carl (FTP) to come out with a really good machine and I'll pay for it wholeheartedly.
What I have in focus right now is the AMX project.
I'm waiting for Carl to have success with that, complete the whole device, build a prototype and then I'll fork over the money for it.
Otherwise, deep down I am an old "Fisher haji" (first XP models were directly based on Fisher knowledge).
And no one would be happier than me if FTP released a new detector model in the spirit of the Fisher tradition.

[ivconic]

[ivconic]

Speaking of multi-frequency detectors... Back in 2001, White's DFX model was released, which can be classified as a true multi-f detector.
And it is very likely that there were similar attempts long before that. So this whole fuss about multi-f is just pompous self-indulgent marketing bull....!

[ivconic]

3:57 at video, watch this carefully, Mark Rowan explains it in details:

[Riss]

,,Rutus are poorer detectors than the Turkish ones. I have Rutus -’’ , and ,, They cost NOTHING AT ALL! I know it from Poles ‘’ - the opinion of my colleague, detector manufacturer and searcher for about 35 years … ,,everything is relative’’ – Einstein …Not everything is relative!- only what can be worn (steal) is relative - correction of the theory of relativity by a Bulgarian gypsy . in Bulgarian, the word relative and the word carry(stealing) have the same root-game of words . Here are the impressions from the field of another colleague - also a detector manufacturer, and a searcher of at least 33 years, with vast experience in the field . His detector (its depth is not impressive) against Deus 1 and Deus 2. Deus2 in the air registers a hunting bullet for wild boar at 35 cm, but on the ground its discrimination dies on the weaker signals. Of the deeper signals FORGET ABOUT DISCRIMINATION TOTALLY !!!. On ,, all metals” mode the depth in the soil is only slightly more than my friend's regular detector. And I was so hoping that Deus 2 was a significant step forward... apparently its software needs a serious upgrade . I haven't tested either Rutus , either Deus 1 and Deus 2 - and I have no right to an opinion .Тhe alternative is relative

[ivconic]

"...discrimination dies on the weaker signals..."

This is very typical for all metal detectors.
In my 36 years dealing with detectors; so far I have not seen a single one that does not suffer from that.
Only maybe, and I mentioned this before on the forum; the Fisher CZ5 (CZ3D later) has slightly better behavior when it comes to this problem.
Its discrimination is reliable even at slightly greater depths.
And it is the only detector that discriminates the famous horseshoes a little better.

[Riss]

Ivconic , thanks for the video with Marc Rowan . I'm used to phase diagrams from https://patents.google.com/patent/US4030026A/en , this is (Marc Rowan) the same , but rotated 90 degrees clockwise . I'm curious if you know exactly where it is positioned the vector of the deepest objects that are at the limit of the detector's capabilities ? They are heard weakly, on "all metals" mode. discrimination is extremely uncertain for objects at depths greater than the diameter of the probe , but Deus 2 should be better than Fisher CZ 3D , in a parallel test . When we want to know if one detector is better than another- in the field, in real search- two searchers, with different detector models and each checks his friend's signals before digging

[ivconic]

"...I'm curious if you know exactly where it is positioned the vector of the deepest objects that are at the limit of the detector's capabilities ?..."

Probably just above the salt phase.If we look at Rowan's chart.
On Deus's VDI it is shown as "00" and still the sound is heard in the speaker.