OKM Rover CII New

[gndradar]

OKM scam?

I thought I could get more valuable info in this forum. Up to now the answers are the same like my OKM scans....

Why do you say the OKM is a scam? have you bought a device over the phone and it wasn't sent to you.? Did you go to the factory and meet the owners and device designers and query them as to your concerns?
Have you taken your issues directly to OKM instead of a forum? The guys at the factory are very approachable and would enjoy to the opportune to allay any concerns you may have about any of the devices.

[ivconic]

I don't want to involve myself in pro&contra debates here, just want to clear up noticable wrong use of some terms like "radar" and similar. Seems that most of OKM devices are nothing more than ordinary magnetometers. So i don't see a reason to call them "ground radar" because they are not. There is HUGE difference between device which is real ground radar and device which essentially is magnetometer.
One thing we can admit; OKM software that came with their devices is really impressive in how it looks.
But for me "shiny" software is not what makes the job done on real soil - but quality of device itself.
So.. if we clear up the real facts and agree on FACT that it is actually an ordinary magnetometer - than it would be much easier to anticipate final performances in real life. One thing is to play shiny video games on some LCD monitor - and another thing is to achieve real usable performances with high accuracy and high performances. I am afraid that OKM devices are nothing more than ordinary and cheap technology stuff with addition of pretty shiny "video game" software ... of course by very hot prices!
Sorry.. but that's just my opinion.

[gndradar]

A lawyer??

I already asked him! They told me I have turned the probe and I should use more space in between the lines. I´m from Germany and I think if they sell crap and tell things about this machine which aren´t true it is beguilement,isn´t it! So I have to go to a lawyer!
Has someone the same experience like me or am I the only idiot who bought this machine?????? Obviousely they sell lots of those things, shouldn´t there more people like me???
So is the Rover C II from OKM capable to locate caves? YES or NO! Easy as the cavefinder function:-)

You make a valid point above, if they sell crap as you claim, wouldn't there be dozens or hundreds of people with complaints? The Rover CII will detect caves. Read the manual and follow the exact instructions for its use.

[ivconic]

Rover will locate cave - that's for sure, no problem in that. So as any other magnetometer. Point is not if OKM Rover will detect cave or not - point is that it was advertised in manner to attract more attention than it deserves. And also point can be lunatic and unreal price for such device.
But one thing justify another - pretty blur and aggressive advertisements are made exactly to confuse and to justify such huge and lunatic price.
Because.. let's be real; pretty descent magnetometer (which will locate same cave with same accuracy) can be home made for $200-$300 and even less. So.. considering all these FACTS we can conclude that OKM is mostly selling "fog" to their customers. Just a good example of very "good business" and nothing more... People from Turkish Nokta realized this (learning from OKM masters) and also made fine business too - expensive "fog" for huge money!

[gndradar]

Your opinion

I don't want to involve myself in pro&contra debates here, just want to clear up noticable wrong use of some terms like "radar" and similar. Seems that most of OKM devices are nothing more than ordinary magnetometers. So i don't see a reason to call them "ground radar" because they are not. There is HUGE difference between device which is real ground radar and device which essentially is magnetometer.
One thing we can admit; OKM software that came with their devices is really impressive in how it looks.
But for me "shiny" software is not what makes the job done on real soil - but quality of device itself.
So.. if we clear up the real facts and agree on FACT that it is actually an ordinary magnetometer - than it would be much easier to anticipate final performances in real life. One thing is to play shiny video games on some LCD monitor - and another thing is to achieve real usable performances with high accuracy and high performances. I am afraid that OKM devices are nothing more than ordinary and cheap technology stuff with addition of pretty shiny "video game" software ... of course by very hot prices!
Sorry.. but that's just my opinion.

Don't apologise for giving your opinion. The Visualiser 3D software is great to work with when interrogating recorded surveys. Many clients have located great objects from the use of the OKM range.
There's a long list of successful finds on the main OKM website, go through them and see for yourself. Theses aren't all the finds though. When contracted to a client I sign a non-disclosure clause that prevents me from discussing the project. This ensures client, contractor and project integrity.
I agree that claims need to be backed up with results. In the case of OKM I believe they are firmly backed up. If you have an issue with OKM's claim then please don't hesitate to contact them directly and have the issue sorted out.

[ivconic]

Don't apologise for giving your opinion. The Visualiser 3D software is great to work with when interrogating recorded surveys. Many clients have located great objects from the use of the OKM range.
There's a long list of successful finds on the main OKM website, go through them and see for yourself. Theses aren't all the finds though. When contracted to a client I sign a non-disclosure clause that prevents me from discussing the project. This ensures client, contractor and project integrity.
I agree that claims need to be backed up with results. In the case of OKM I believe they are firmly backed up. If you have an issue with OKM's claim then please don't hesitate to contact them directly and have the issue sorted out.

I believe you - i know that many good finds can be made with such device. Like i said; magnetometers are real and usable devices - not a fraud for sure. What bugs me (my budget) is unfair market approach and pretty unreal prices for such devices, nothing else....

[gndradar]

Nokta

Rover will locate cave - that's for sure, no problem in that. So as any other magnetometer. Point is not if OKM Rover will detect cave or not - point is that it was advertised in manner to attract more attention than it deserves. And also point can be lunatic and unreal price for such device.
But one thing justify another - pretty blur and aggressive advertisements are made exactly to confuse and to justify such huge and lunatic price.
Because.. let's be real; pretty descent magnetometer (which will locate same cave with same accuracy) can be home made for $200-$300 and even less. So.. considering all these FACTS we can conclude that OKM is mostly selling "fog" to their customers. Just a good example of very "good business" and nothing more... People from Turkish Nokta realized this (learning from OKM masters) and also made fine business too - expensive "fog" for huge money!

Hmm Nokta, myself and a mate flew to the UK some time ago and my mate bought a Nokta Golden King Deep detector. It works great, great on-board 3d graphics, easy to use, but a little cumbersome I thought. I think he paid about $14,000 Australian dollars for it. Considering what it can do, I think it's a good buy. It comes down to peoples perception of worth based against value in technology.
You can't spend 200 -300 dollars in any currency and locate what myself and my mate can with our detectors.
I have surveyed across known targets with my device and then got several guys with different manufacturer devices (Bounty Hunter, Whites and Minelab) to survey the same target. None of them picked it up, none of them had LIVE 3D or 3D software, none could record surveys and then download them to a laptop. They all agreed I had the better device by a long shot. None of them could detect anything deeper than a foot (33 cms).
So, if you want to find things that are basically at surface level then but anything you can afford. If want to find stuff thats buried deep then buy OKM. Don't just buy OKM, buy something that will suit your needs not your budget!

[ivconic]

Ha,ha,ha! Oh man! You not supposed to compare VLF/IB detectors with magnetometer! Hell no!
Of course magnetometer will locate much deeper targets than any existing VLF/IB.
I talked about home made magnetometer that can be made for small money and can compete OKM in performances - i didn't mentioned any VLF/IB at all. Ha,ha,ha! Seems you misinterpreted ...or misunderstood my point!?
Let me be more clear; same type of magnetometer (same Speake&Co sensors used too) can be home made for much lower price than OKM - that was my point!
OKM would be more fair (and more respectable) if price for Rover was not over ...let's say 700-800e... OK let's say even 1000 to 1200e in worst case... but not 10 times more!!!
That was the point..

[Alexismex]

Good publicity !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have tested Golden King in a probe field and it is a crap for the price!!!!Like Okm also...

[gndradar]

Your budget

I believe you - i know that many good finds can be made with such device. Like i said; magnetometers are real and usable devices - not a fraud for sure. What bugs me (my budget) is unfair market approach and pretty unreal prices for such devices, nothing else....

I understand your point regarding the pricing of any OKM device. To some the prices are too high for such devices. I have personally bought two devices from OKM, an I-160 and my favourite exp4000. I no longer have the I-160 but love the exp4000. Between them I have spent a touch under $40,000 Australian dollars with OKM and have no regrets at all. To some that's a lot of money, to others it's not much.
I don't throw money around without extensive due diligence being done. If your budget (or any others) is a concern when purchasing an OKM device, then get a few friends together and split the cost.
I'm happy with the prices we have on the complete range, they reflect the thousands of man hours and tens of thousands of dollars that have gone into the field testing and ongoing research and development to bring to the market the best device.

[ivconic]

Most funniest fact is that some GK versions are not even a magnetometers - but ordinary VLF detectors.. packed in "nice&shiny" packages with addition of shiny and confusing "video game" interface! Ain't that a perfect example of "fog" selling ??

[ivconic]

I understand your point regarding the pricing of any OKM device. To some the prices are too high for such devices. I have personally bought two devices from OKM, an I-160 and my favourite exp4000. I no longer have the I-160 but love the exp4000. Between them I have spent a touch under $40,000 Australian dollars with OKM and have no regrets at all. To some that's a lot of money, to others it's not much.
I don't throw money around without extensive due diligence being done. If your budget (or any others) is a concern when purchasing an OKM device, then get a few friends together and split the cost.
I'm happy with the prices we have on the complete range, they reflect the thousands of man hours and tens of thousands of dollars that have gone into the field testing and ongoing research and development to bring to the market the best device.

Frankly; i don't have such money, but even if i had - i would never throw it for such overpriced device. Like i said; it can be home made for less money. And i already made few EPE magnetometers/loggers and am very satisfied with results i gained on real soil so far. Software for my home made is not that "powerful" and "shiny" as OKM's... but device itself is equally usable and accurate as OKM's. Conversant (geology&measurements) operator can achieve the very same results with this EPE home made as with overpriced OKM. And that is also the important point. If you were madly rich to spent $40 000 - than i can only say "BRAVO" and nothing else. In that case i will not have no more arguments..

[gndradar]

Spend it to make it!

You have to spend money to make money. I've made significantly more money than my initial outlay from surveying for clients around the globe. This device you made, can you please email some photos and tech specs of it? I'm interested in new technology no matter where it comes from? How deep can you detect tunnels? Can you isolate minerals to just detect for gold? How much did it cost to make? I have heaps of other questions but will save them for an email instead of on here.

[ivconic]

You have to spend money to make money. I've made significantly more money than my initial outlay from surveying for clients around the globe. This device you made, can you please email some photos and tech specs of it? I'm interested in new technology no matter where it comes from? How deep can you detect tunnels? Can you isolate minerals to just detect for gold? How much did it cost to make? I have heaps of other questions but will save them for an email instead of on here.

It's already talked about it here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13938

I already located few tunnels from 5 to 8 meters depth. Software that came with it is poor, so once logged data were analyzed with different method.
About "isolating minerals to just detect for gold" i am not sure.
It's been known that magnetometers are sensitive on earth magnetic field changes and disturbations, therefore those devices are used to measure, monitor and logg such changes. It is question what caused such disturbations and changes in earth magnetic field. If changes are constant and covering larger area - most likely are caused by presence of some huge "anomaly" like cave, tunnel..... etc..
Smallest momentary changes are quite another story.
I am really not sure about accuracy in mineral locating and recognizing.
OKM software do generates some "nice" pictures all the time. But those are only presentations of earth magnetic field changes and nothing more.
Would be very interesting if you explain here how can you distinguish between salts and minerals on one side and gold ore (for example) on the other side? Only ferromagnetic materials can affect earth magnetic field , so i don't see how nonmagnetic materials can be located with such method as magnetometry??

[WM6]

You have to spend money to make money. .

.... say OKM dealer.

This is slogan of gambling, and need to be translated in treasure hunter / prospectors language for proper understanding:

You have to spend money for OKM, to lost your money forever.