Designing and marketing new metal detectors.

[Alexismex]

The pest in any "Jungle" it is not the spider and snake ,not the jaguar and another big cats ....it is simply the mosquitoes and another very very small insect like ticks.... they turn you crazy and sick ....

[holyuser]

You think so?

Yes, and also ticks and mosquitoes.

[Qiaozhi]

Thanks Qiaozhi

by the way, I think the time has come to start learning to speak Mandarin. Coild you give me some pointers?

Tinkerer

Find a Chinese teacher! It's the only way.

But, if you want an easy introduction to read, you can try this ->
Teach Yourself Beginner's Chinese by Elizabeth Scurfield and Song Lianyi.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Yourse...1613654&sr=1-9

I note someone, on the U.S. Amazon site, is pushing their luck by trying to sell a new copy for $260.89 !! ... hahaha! The RRP was £7.99.

[ivconic]

The pest in any "Jungle" it is not the spider and snake ,not the jaguar and another big cats ....it is simply the mosquitoes and another very very small insect like ticks.... they turn you crazy and sick ....

Bravo! You got that right!
I don't know how much i would like to pay if there is a way to solve damn mosquitoes problem!
And reading Bbsailor's list of suggestions i can only add another one:
* Mosquito repellent feature!
Why not?
Is it possible? Of course it is!
Any modern and "digital" metal detector can include subsonic (or ultrasound, not sure which one is right) audio carrier which is somehow superimposed in regular audio.
No kidding; the other day i was about to write on this too!
Deus is having much extra space in it's memory already. Other top models too, i recon.
So why not implementing such "repeller" too? Switched by user through user's menu options!
Further, along with mosquito repeller; dog repeller can be added too!
Ha! Bbsailor how about that?

[holyuser]

Mosquito repellent feature!

Well, mosquitoes are not dangerous, but what about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus_mactans

[ivconic]

Well, mosquitoes are not dangerous, but what about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus_mactans

Those are residing there in Montenegro, not here.
Sweet little creatures!

[holyuser]

Those are residing there in Montenegro, not here.
Sweet little creatures!

You're lucky.

[ivconic]

I think this thread is really useful.
Illustrative and contributive.
Starting with Tinkerers observations through Bbsailor's list of suggestions and now continuing with our splendid and profound additions!
Owner should offer us some fee(t) for this!

[Tinkerer]

Charming specimens! Wow!

"..Why is the use of metal detectors not widespread in the region? ..."

It is not? Than what are the methods of discovering such nice nuggets?
As you said; such sized nuggets are easy to be detected with metal detector.

This is what you are talking about. Focusing the market effort.

A lot of the gold bearing areas of the world, are located in the tropical jungles of Africa, South America, and Asia. It rains very often and the rain comes down very hard. It needs a water proof detector to be able to work most of the time.

Of course, hobby detectorists don't go detecting in such weather.

We are talking of people who make a living digging for gold, versus people who want some fun and outdoor relaxation.

At the beginning, detectors were built to search for mines.

Then they were built for a hobby.

Now we should look at the big picture, the millions of hard working people who could use a detector as a tool that helps them making a living.

The price of the gold is right.

Tinkerer

[ivconic]

I see.
Making waterproof detector is not a big deal.
But making indeed accurate nugget hunter - is a big deal!
Now i understand your interests and work from other thread.
I think you choose wisely than.
There is a future for investing in such work, considering the infos you gave here.
Reasonable low price with reasonable good performances, that's the answer.

[Tinkerer]

Yes, and also ticks and mosquitoes.

Malaria, Hemorrhagic Dengue, Intestinal parasites, the list could go on for a long time. The locals are used to it but for us it is a killer. Although I have been living there for 30 years and am still more or less alive.

But not all the gold regions are in the jungle. I heard in the desert of Sudan there was a metal detector boom recently.

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

I see.
Making waterproof detector is not a big deal.
But making indeed accurate nugget hunter - is a big deal!
Now i understand your interests and work from other thread.
I think you choose wisely than.
There is a future for investing in such work, considering the infos you gave here.
Reasonable low price with reasonable good performances, that's the answer.

Reasonable low price with reasonable good performances, that's the answer.You are getting close. It does not need a super detector to hunt for nuggets in virgin areas.
It must be extremely simple to handle, because most of the gold diggers are illiterate.
And, most of all, it must be very, very rugged.

Yes, my initial interest was leaning in that direction, but old age got in between. Too old to think of business now.

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

I'll bet there are a whole lot more than 2M. However, a lot of those are digging nearly gold dust, stuff that a detector won't detect. Still, there is a huge market for gold detectors, as shown by the explosion of gold detector sales.

The (apparent) fact that Minelab is selling gobs of 4500's into 3rd World countries at a steep price suggests that a high price is not necessarily a barrier. Whether it's popular because of performance or mystique is a good question. The former suggests that a good performer at a lower price would succeed. The latter suggests that price & performance won't close the deal.

In any case, anyone wanting to design/produce a new metal detector should probably focus on a niche market where they can command a high price. Blisstool seems to have hit it about right. Lorenz and PulseStar, too. A solid GPX competitor at about half the price would probably work. I've always thought a sub-$1000 consumer-grade (non-military) mine detector would also do well, assuming you can deal with the liability issue.

- Carl

Carl,

what is the reasoning behind a consumer grade mine detector? You got me baffled!!!

Tinkerer

[ivconic]

Reasonable low price with reasonable good performances, that's the answer.You are getting close. It does not need a super detector to hunt for nuggets in virgin areas.
It must be extremely simple to handle, because most of the gold diggers are illiterate.
And, most of all, it must be very, very rugged.

Yes, my initial interest was leaning in that direction, but old age got in between. Too old to think of business now.

Tinkerer

Don't guess me wrong, i will not try to push you to harm no copyrights here, but;
maybe is good idea to analyze again already existing nugget hunter projects and see the "logic" involved there.
How else we can learn? If not learning from existing knowledge with addition of our own ideas.
So i would rather suggest you to pay interest more in IB nugget hunters designs.
Tesoro Lobo, Diablo. Fisher Gold Bug. Minelab Eureka. Others.
I guess it would be easier to accomplish such design than PI.
At the end; you will get pretty similar results, if not even better with IB approach.
Especially on "virgin" soils, as you pointed.

[Tinkerer]

I would like to throw my ideas into the mix of thoughts on this thread. See this link to get some background about iterative design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iterative_design.

Metal detector design has been historically an iterative process, not for specific models but for the general evolution of metal detectors going from hardware-based designs to being more software-based.

The physical footprint including size, weight, power use, and user implemented features is highly dependent on the constraints of what can be comfortably carried on a stick or hung on one's body. Power consumption detemines how long the batteries will last in the field, typically being a minimum of about 8 hours. Given the recent advances in L-ion batteries and software driven designs it makes a realistic goal of making a universal PI design with only software upgrades to minimize hardware changes that makes machines obsolete.

I am going to throw out a design objective that with current technology can be achieved. I would like the feedback from the many thinking and technically competant people on this forum.

Here it goes!

Design Objective

Using a software-based PI metal detector, with a visual/audio user interface, removable storage media (such as a SD memory card) and LCD screen, create a PI machine that allows the user to analyze the ground, the speed of the coil sweep, optimization damping of various search coils to match the optimum adjustable TX and RX parameters of (1) TX pulse length, (2) sampling delay, (3) number and time of sampling points on the target decay curve, (4) ground balance, (5) external interference reduction, (6) earth magnetic field reduction, (7) probable target identification.

I see the use of motion sensors in the PI control box or remotely located lower on the coil shaft to analyse the end of each swing to help allow the operator maintain the optimum search speed. The removable memory cards should allow ground curves to be stored, indexed and later analyzed to optimize PI performance and sharing among a community of users. The PI TX and RX settings should be overlayed on the each stored curve along with an index number that allows the user to keep field notes identifying where each sample was taken. Different target responses could also be taken and stored on each ground sample.

Example: highly mineralized soil is highly sensitive to the TX pulse length. By allowing users to see the effect of altering the TX pulse on the particular ground location they are searching, by using a sample of the target types sought, an optimum set of PI TX and RX parameters could be found, stored and shared. In addition, various coil types and sized could be tried and verified for the optimum performance in a sepecific location.

By allowing users of this new breed of PI machines to be linked on the Internet on forums such a Geotech, the evolution of the PI design will be software refinement and parameter adjustment to select the best set of TX and RX PI parameters, coil types and sizes for a particular location. Features such as screen blanking while searching will save power only turning on the screen when a target is located or when the user presses a screen activation button.

I applaud the efforts of Dave Emery (Pulse Devil) and Howard Rockey (QED) for their single-handed attempts to build a better "beeper".

I do not see a final PI machine evolving quickly as there are many practical business decisions that need consideration to get something out the door and make the kind of profit that can sustain the iterative design process over enough years that what I described above can be achieved.

I believe that commercial PI manufactures, such as White's, may also be considering something similar to what I propose as what I propose is capable of being done now, but fitting it all into a portable footprint with size, weight and power consumption constraints may need to wait for some custom ASEC chips and commercially available modules. I even see a PI module that uses an I-Phone, an I-Pad or something similar for the computer processing power being connected to this external PI module doing everything I described above to minimize redundent computer development that is currently available off-the-shelf.

Are the features that I have outlined above needed, desireable or practical? Is there a better set of design alternatives?

Joseph Rogowski
AKA: bbsailor

Hi bbsailor,

good to see you adding your expert opinion.
There is certainly a lot of sense in your proposed design goal. It is the way that all electronics go nowadays.
Living in the comfort of the cities in the best part of the world, we tend to forget that the larger part of the world makes do with much less.

Until recently I thought that when it comes to marketing, these 2 worlds are too far apart. I thought that there could be no market for electronic gadgets in the third world. I was very wrong. I see my illiterate workers with cell phones, I don't understand how they use them, but they spend half a month salary on them, just to see them be ruined by the high humidity in a short time.

For metal detectors though, I believe there are 2 different worlds. Each world has very different needs.

Tinkerer