field test unit no 001 "model T"

[Davor]

Hanlon's razor is the answer

Stupidity before malice! It is stupidity and fear that rules the world, not malice and bad intentions.

[Aziz]

Occam's Razor Principle

I want to remember to the Occam's Razor Principle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

We know, that the coil designers & makers aren't dumb people. Sure?
One could seriously ask, why the basket/spider weave coils have never been used in the production yet.
If there were any real advantage, it would very likely have been used before. Sure?


I'm very sure about the very high complexity of the question. Sure?
A lot of factors are making the equations very complex to solve.
We have complex integral equations, differential equations, many parameters, etc...
No, I don't think, that anybody can solve it.
You have to build many prototypes to see the result.
Who is actually making the coils?
^sif

[Aziz]

...
None of this really changes anything though does it?

That's the big interesting question "big master & guru".
To get or not to get tarred & feathered! *LOL*

What do you think Robby_H?
^

[robby_h]

Sure Robby ... another stab in the dark .... the 18 inch basket coil is 7 mm thick 10 mm with spacers and shielding and comes in at 720 gram. The coiltek 18 inch is 915 gram and a few mm thicker.

I should have given that a bit more thought, the edge on view is a bit misleading but probably equals the thickness of the spacer plus 2.5mm for the windings and another 2.5 for the shell.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29399&d=1397565068

It will be quite a bit thicker though if insulated with the usual thickness of foam.

The 18" bundle wound windings are around 4mm plus the foam and shell, and some coils are very thin which suggests they have spread more turns across the coil.

None of this really changes anything though does it?

[Aziz]

I read it LOL .... adapted and arranged.

Fine. So you are very careful in making further claims now... Ok? *LOL*

Who's got to be tarred and feathered now?
Doug, Moodz, ^sif (myself)
or
Robby_H, PJ, UFox?
(including all the gurus making bundle coils too)

That's the very interesting question.

Hey guys, how much have you got to fund the results so far?
I'm totally bankrupt and my "gut feeling" isn't working properly due to starvation.
I'm looking for a "free lunch" & "free beer" ... *LOL*
^

[moodz]

I read it LOL .... adapted and arranged.

[Aziz]

Hey Moodz,
did you read my PM? It is very important man!
^

[moodz]

But the Moodz basket weave coil is about three times as thick as a bundle wound coil and will be thicker still when it is shielded and insulated with foam.

COIL TYPE	24 x 14" Goldstalker®
SHAPE	ROUND	ELLIPTICAL	ELLIPTICAL
KNOWN AS	18" GS	22" GS	24x14” GS
LENGTH	450mm	540mm	590mm
WIDTH	450mm	540mm	345mm
COLOUR	TAN	TAN	TAN
CONFIGURATION	MONO	MONO	DD
WEIGHT (AV.)	915gm	1100gm	1018gm
CABLE LENGTH (AV.)	1.7mtr	1.7mtr	1.7mtr
SKIDPLATE ‐Supplied	FITTED	FITTED	Fitted
SKIDPLATE ‐Accessory	SOLID	SOLID	Solid
SHAFT HOLE BOLT SIZE	1/4 INCH	1/4 INCH	1/4 Inch
COIL TAPE USED	BLACK	BLACK	BLACK
WATER RESISTANT	YES	YES	YES
WATER PROOF	NO	NO	NO
PLASTIC TYPE	ABS	ABS	ABS
PLUG TYPE	GOLD PLATED	GOLD PLATED	GOLD PLATED
APPLICABLE DETECTOR	SD / GP / GPX SERIES	SD / GP / GPX SERIES	SD / GP / GPX SERIES

Sure Robby ... another stab in the dark .... the 18 inch basket coil is 7 mm thick 10 mm with spacers and shielding and comes in at 720 gram. The coiltek 18 inch is 915 gram and a few mm thicker.

[Aziz]

Coil Guru is coming...



^4

[Aziz]

But the Moodz basket weave coil is about three times as thick as a bundle wound coil and will be thicker still when it is shielded and insulated with foam.

Nope. Same applies to the bundle wound coils however.
Well, I can make the spider coil relative thin. Even a 2 mm thick shielding gap layer would make the spider coil thinner than the bundle coil.

^³ (³ due to super-smartness )

[robby_h]

I got it this time!!!!!! A simple proof!!!!! The spider wound coil must go deeper! There is an apparent depth advantage visible!!!!
Yeah!, I'm smart! I'm ultra-ultimate super smart!!! I'm super-duper genius!!!! I'm a real coil guru!!! *LOL*

[ATTACH]29526[/ATTACH]
^²

But the Moodz basket weave coil is about three times as thick as a bundle wound coil and will be thicker still when it is shielded and insulated with foam.

[Doug2]

Where in any post have i said what detectors the testing was done with? (You didn't. I was talking about your past history of ridiculous flawed tests re smooth timings on the 4000 4500 etc) Perhaps you can tell me what i was wearing when doing the testing!!!LOL! LOL! (a pink G-string?) Also how can you say that an increase in coil Q will always result in a longer coil TC when you and I don't know the inductance or resistance of the said coil? (to increase Q we increase L or/and decrease R. Both result in a longer TC). I also never said that any other detector can automatically sample earlier when using a faster coil. What I said was another detector can take advantage of a faster coil! (Is this while also cancelling the additional ground noise and hot rocks or just in quiet ground?) The coil maker told me that the coil Q was larger than commercial coils but i did not measure it and I took the coil makers word for it!!!!!! I do not have the expertise or instruments to measure coil Q,resonant frequencies,accurate inductance's, inter winding or distributed capacitance or peak field strength! Then why are you prattling on about Q, TCs, L and R and claiming to be a reliable guru coil tester?

At least I don't speculate like you on things you cannot know anything about! Where have I claimed to be a guru coil tester? although i have wound a very crude coil (won't work on a ML!!)where the fall off in in the far field is not 1 /d^6! More for you to speculate on! Have fun! Ps what was I wearing when I tested the spider wound coil? What detectors did i use? Where at kingower and other locations did i do the testing?You are still a dumb parrot!

[Aziz]

I got it this time!!!!!! A simple proof!!!!! The spider wound coil must go deeper! There is an apparent depth advantage visible!!!!
Yeah!, I'm smart! I'm ultra-ultimate super smart!!! I'm super-duper genius!!!! I'm a real coil guru!!! *LOL*


^²

[robby_h]

You are just speculating yet again! Where in any post have i said what detectors the testing was done with? Perhaps you can tell me what i was wearing when doing the testing!!! LOL! LOL! Also how can you say that an increase in coil Q will always result in a longer coil TC when you and I don't know the inductance or resistance of the said coil? I also never said that any other detector can automatically sample earlier when using a faster coil. What I said was another detector can take advantage of a faster coil! The coil maker told me that the coil Q was larger than commercial coils but i did not measure it and I took the coil makers word for it!!!!!! I do not have the expertise or instruments to measure coil Q,resonant frequencies,accurate inductance's, inter winding or distributed capacitance or peak field strength!

Where in any post have i said what detectors the testing was done with? (You didn't. I was talking about your past history of ridiculous flawed tests re smooth timings on the 4000 4500 etc) Perhaps you can tell me what i was wearing when doing the testing!!!LOL! LOL! (a pink G-string?) Also how can you say that an increase in coil Q will always result in a longer coil TC when you and I don't know the inductance or resistance of the said coil? (to increase Q we increase L or/and decrease R. Both result in a longer TC). I also never said that any other detector can automatically sample earlier when using a faster coil. What I said was another detector can take advantage of a faster coil! (Is this while also cancelling the additional ground noise and hot rocks or just in quiet ground?) The coil maker told me that the coil Q was larger than commercial coils but i did not measure it and I took the coil makers word for it!!!!!! I do not have the expertise or instruments to measure coil Q,resonant frequencies,accurate inductance's, inter winding or distributed capacitance or peak field strength!

Then why are you prattling on about Q, TCs, L and R and claiming to be a reliable guru coil tester?

[Aziz]

It will be an outperformer, when shielded of course! No other coil will go deeper. Even ML's won't go deeper.
So the very smart question is, why will it be an outperformer?
Robby_H?
UFox?
PJ?
Candy?
Any ideas?
^sif

Oooops, I realy have claimed it..... What a shame... *LOL*
Do I deserve to get tarred & feathered now?
I need the tarred & feathered animated icon..... Admin, admiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin?
^ (<--- shorted ^sif)