Halo Effect - WTF !!!!

[Steve in MS]

Here's what I think which is unscientific and just my opinion. Maybe all of us would agree that iron can have halo effect? Next, copper and all its alloys break down when exposed to the earth, you know that green stuff that forms on it? So my take is that copper and its alloys will cause a degree of halo in the ground, that is the material off copper will scatter in the ground around the object causing a friendlier atmosphere for the detector to see it if the corrosion factor doesn't subtract from the gain. Lastly the best debate either for or against halo is silver and gold, seeing that they don't breakdown or corrode like most other metals but in my opinion there may actually be some halo around them also. Ever take a piece of metal and use 600 grit sand paper on it? It will polish the metal, actually you are taking off a very small amount of metal even though it would take some very expensive measuring devices to measure the amount taken off so here is the question, do minerals in the ground chemically break down gold and silver and any manner at all, if the answer is yes then there is the possibility of some halo effect to occur.
The surrounding ground if it has the halo effect in theory is undetectable in itself but detectors see minerals, even if the operator is unaware of it, right, ? Then it stands to reason that the ground around an object in the ground that has been chemically altered by the presence of the metal material could cause more favorable conditions for a better signal.

I realize there will always be some who think halo is for real or some who don't. I believe in the halo effect from what I have experienced while detecting or maybe the detector gods were with me at those times.

[ivconic]

I dont need to "beleive" in a thing. I dont need to prove a thing to unregistered "experts" here. Also i dont need any science to see and experience what i have been experienced for million times on the field, prospecting for more than 20 years...
I am not claiming a thing. I am not lying.
Also i never said i am expert,guru or whatever. Also i never claimed that fully understand what is all about.
I simply reported with simple words my often experiences.
Yes...old roman arrow (weapon), made from purified iron, placed in soil for 1600 years,untouched,undisturbed DO have some sort of "field","hallo" or whatever effect. And it is much easier detectable with metal detector than when dug out and dry a bit and again tested in air. Diffrences are not 1-2%...Diffrences are HUGE!
On 35cm depth detected in soil and later in air bairly at 20-25cm....
That was my first experience with this phenomena. After that (20 years ago)...this and simillar repeated almost every time in same manner...

But fresh burried item does not produce same effect. Fresh burried item is detected in soil on less distance than in air.
So...
I can not explain this. And i dont give a F..K to explain this, especially to unregistered wise guys here...
First REGISTER,than come here and act smart as much as you prefer.
Among majority of present members which are very descent and pleasant people..ocassionally appears some idiot to "put salt on our brains", acting smart and "scientific" to much...
That's why i void to come here more and more, recently. I dont have to much nervs for idiots lately.
This forum was place where i could relax and learn something new. Recently turned to be very "hard" place for me and my nervs...
To many "experts" and "scientists" appeared here. None of those want to join for real...register and contribute with some real thing.

Carl....since you are administrator, you should change forum rules. You should limit access to these pages only to registered and checked members, like i did on my amateur forum.
Without registration - no views, no posts...nothing.
Even if smartass register just for one ocassion and post something stupid...i am deleting him in no time. Good bye and farewell! Simply as that.
We joined here, became sort of friends, cooperate,exchange...help each other...and all of the sudden some fool appears to spoil already evolved good spirit. Thats why so few topics remained consistent recently here....
As administrator and owner you should have much "stronger arms" here, Carl....
Democracy is good only for good and smart people. For those acting "smart" only baseball bat is good....aint no democracy for them.

[Tinkerer]

Halo effect

I believe the halo effect can be caused by the presence of soluble metallic salts.

Microscopic particles of metal do not usually give a response to the metal detector. However many soluble metallic salts are conductive and can therefore give a response.

A metallic target that has been buried in an aggressive environment for a long time can have a halo caused by metallic salts that have formed over time.

Try the following test:

Dissolve one pound of table salt (sodium chloride) in one gallon of water.
Poor the solution in a non mineralized soil, then run the detector over it.

There is your halo effect.

Tinkerer

[simonbaker]

There is no scientific evidence for the existence of a halo around longtime buried nonferrous objects. However, in practice there are many reported cases of items being detected at depths greater than they can be detected in an air test. I (like others on this forum) have also experienced this phenomenon. So what's going on?

IMHO it appears to me that the halo effect does not actually exist for nonferrous objects. What is most likely happening (in simple words) is that some deep targets are located in an area of soil that has some different properties than the surrounding area. This anomaly is sufficient to "boost" the phase shift in the target's signal, thus having the effect of making it more easily detectable. The anomaly itself is quite weak and would probably not be detectable on it's own. Replacing the target in the hole still leaves it undetectable, because the soil matrix has been disturbed and the anomaly effectively destroyed. In other words, digging up the object destroys the anomaly, and therefore any hope of restoring the "halo" effect, which actually didn't exist in the first place.

As is usually the case, you should always look for the simplest solution. Remember Occam's Razor.

Thanks Q, I've been waiting for someone to suggest that. I also believe in "helper objects", which could be tiny targets around, above, or below the recovered target that added to the signal strength but which are too weak to be detected by themselves. When we dig a coin at 13 inches, maybe there was another below it at 16 inches we never saw! Or maybe just broken bits of trash scattered near. You can imagine so many possibilities other than halo.

[DRAKOS]

Hi friends
From personal experience, can tell you that halo effect exists.
No new physics law, no upper mathematics.
Only deep knowledge of the existing laws. And there is no need of ancient buried metal. A few year buried , copper water pipe, is good enough. Try it with a spectrum analyzer, think of the results and everything is clear. Can’t tell you the reason, it’s my secret, but you ‘ll see the halo effect in numbers with your own eyes.
No soil effect, no magic, pure physics. But think, think deep.

[J_Player]

unlesss a new law of phisycs is discovered I do not see any chanse for the halo to prevail.

The halo does not prevail. It is only a phenomena that many people report they have experienced.

My suggestion is there is no new law of physics to explain this experience. My opinion is the reason physics has not explained what people are reporting is because scientists have not examined this halo happening in close enough detail. I believe if scientists conducted very detailed tests to examine some actual field experience of targets showing a weaker signal after being recovered, then they will probably find there is a simple explanation to describe why people experience this happening.

It seems to me the difficulty that prevents scientists from making a detailed study is nobody knows for certain where there is a target that will demonstrate halo principle until after the target is removed from the ground. The problem for the scientist is to design some testing methods that will allow measuring changes in the physical properties of the target as well as in the soil during the process of recovering the target. This is why I suggested a few simple test methods that might help. Maybe there are better test methods that can show what changes to cause a target signal to decrease when it is recovered and measured in the air.

I think artificially prepared soil samples would be suspect because they do not represent actual real world halo conditions as reported by people who experience halo. But artificial soil samples still could give some good information that might help solve the mystery.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Perhaps an experiment could be done when hunting in locations where very ancient halo targets are expected. Suppose we located a target that we suspect has halo effect. Instead of dig this target, dig a hole to the side of the target. Then after you are deeper than the target, tunnel below it and recover it from below, while disturbing the soil above as little as possible. Then make your air test to see if it is less than the ground test was. If the air test is less distance, then return the target via the tunnel below and compact the same soil into the tunnel. Now test again for the ground signal strength. Find out if the halo effect was restored when the target was replaced without disturbing the ground above it.

Maybe this procedure will show the halo remains if the soil above and around the target is not disturbed. I think maybe there is a 20% chance this method might leave the halo intact.

I also have a stronger feeling the target will lose whatever is causing halo when the surface of the target is moved from the soil contact. perhaps it would be good to carefully dig a target to include the undisturbed soil around it maybe 10 cm spherical radius, and make tests of this soil sample in air with the undisturbed target inside. Then remove all except the last 2 cm of soil and test in air again. Then finally the target alone. Maybe this will give some information that helps to understand the mechanism.

A third, simpler kind of test could be tried by digging the target normally, but stop every 5 cm while digging to test the signal strength again. This would give you a measurable chart showing how the halo disappeared as you dig while holding the coil at the same height as before digging. You may find there is a certain proximity to the coin where the removal of soil makes a big difference.

Best wishes,
J_P

An alternative experiment would be to artificially create a ground anomaly that causes a few degrees of positive phase shift. Then perform some tests detecting the target in a hole with and without the anomaly. It may even be possible to do this as an air test.

Perhaps an experiment could be done when hunting in locations where very ancient halo targets are expected. Suppose we located a target that we suspect has halo effect. Instead of dig this target, dig a hole to the side of the target. Then after you are deeper than the target, tunnel below it and recover it from below, while disturbing the soil above as little as possible. Then make your air test to see if it is less than the ground test was. If the air test is less distance, then return the target via the tunnel below and compact the same soil into the tunnel. Now test again for the ground signal strength. Find out if the halo effect was restored when the target was replaced without disturbing the ground above it.

Maybe this procedure will show the halo remains if the soil above and around the target is not disturbed. I think maybe there is a 20% chance this method might leave the halo intact.

I also have a stronger feeling the target will lose whatever is causing halo when the surface of the target is moved from the soil contact. perhaps it would be good to carefully dig a target to include the undisturbed soil around it maybe 10 cm spherical radius, and make tests of this soil sample in air with the undisturbed target inside. Then remove all except the last 2 cm of soil and test in air again. Then finally the target alone. Maybe this will give some information that helps to understand the mechanism.

A third, simpler kind of test could be tried by digging the target normally, but stop every 5 cm while digging to test the signal strength again. This would give you a measurable chart showing how the halo disappeared as you dig while holding the coil at the same height as before digging. You may find there is a certain proximity to the coin where the removal of soil makes a big difference.

Best wishes,
J_P

How about diggin the non ferrous target cm by cm untill is accurately recovered. Then will see about "deeper" underground halo results.

I have studied physics and chemistry too. I know no reason why there would be any "halo effect".

But this makes me wonder why not only Ivconic and Max are reporting that the signal becomes smaller in air after they dig up ancient non-ferrous coins. There are people all over the world reporting the same as they do.

Do you have any science that explains what hundreds of people experienced all over the world? Or are tehy all liars?


Best wishes,
J_P

No, they are not all liars. They are simply mistaken and some of them are definitely liars. I would say that if all of those people were possible to get close examination on the way they recover targets from the ground that would give the best answer for the halo illusion.
The general rule is that all detectors can detect any target further in air than deeper under ground.
At least one of the halo guys have to demonstrate a way of enhancing a non ferrous signal in air, then I will consider that there could be a chanse of that halo to occur under ground.
But unlesss a new law of phisycs is discovered I do not see any chanse for the halo to prevail.

All best.

[J_Player]

Perhaps an experiment could be done when hunting in locations where very ancient halo targets are expected. Suppose we located a target that we suspect has halo effect. Instead of dig this target, dig a hole to the side of the target. Then after you are deeper than the target, tunnel below it and recover it from below, while disturbing the soil above as little as possible. Then make your air test to see if it is less than the ground test was. If the air test is less distance, then return the target via the tunnel below and compact the same soil into the tunnel. Now test again for the ground signal strength. Find out if the halo effect was restored when the target was replaced without disturbing the ground above it.

Maybe this procedure will show the halo remains if the soil above and around the target is not disturbed. I think maybe there is a 20% chance this method might leave the halo intact.

I also have a stronger feeling the target will lose whatever is causing halo when the surface of the target is moved from the soil contact. perhaps it would be good to carefully dig a target to include the undisturbed soil around it maybe 10 cm spherical radius, and make tests of this soil sample in air with the undisturbed target inside. Then remove all except the last 2 cm of soil and test in air again. Then finally the target alone. Maybe this will give some information that helps to understand the mechanism.

A third, simpler kind of test could be tried by digging the target normally, but stop every 5 cm while digging to test the signal strength again. This would give you a measurable chart showing how the halo disappeared as you dig while holding the coil at the same height as before digging. You may find there is a certain proximity to the coin where the removal of soil makes a big difference.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

There is no scientific evidence for the existence of a halo around longtime buried nonferrous objects. However, in practice there are many reported cases of items being detected at depths greater than they can be detected in an air test. I (like others on this forum) have also experienced this phenomenon. So what's going on?

IMHO it appears to me that the halo effect does not actually exist for nonferrous objects. What is most likely happening (in simple words) is that some deep targets are located in an area of soil that has some different properties than the surrounding area. This anomaly is sufficient to "boost" the phase shift in the target's signal, thus having the effect of making it more easily detectable. The anomaly itself is quite weak and would probably not be detectable on it's own. Replacing the target in the hole still leaves it undetectable, because the soil matrix has been disturbed and the anomaly effectively destroyed. In other words, digging up the object destroys the anomaly, and therefore any hope of restoring the "halo" effect, which actually didn't exist in the first place.

As is usually the case, you should always look for the simplest solution. Remember Occam's Razor.

[papaTJeeper]

"Halo/Schmalo"

Halo "effect" on non ferrous targets is right up there with see-through, hot & cold detectors of the same brand/model and a few other myths concocted by dealers or mfgs. to sell detectors. The laws of physics dictate the operation of all detectors, and the electronics inside the control housing dictate how the target information from the coil is processed.

As to the detection or lack there of when the target is "air tested" consider the fact that the detector isn't and can't be balanced to an air matrix, so the matrix is different than soil, therefore the apparent detection depth is changed.

IMHO and through conducting extensive experiments, on non ferrous targets, no halo exists that will aid your detector to detect said target at greater depths. Just because the soil around the target is different, the only area that eddy current can or does exist is in the "skin" of the target.

Ty

[Max]

Hey max,JP

i believe you . i have struggle with some bigger problem : moving treasures in the ground
if i didn't see with my eyes i never believe that .
but about halo effect it's very good stuff always make my work very easy , i love that , i don't care that what they think about it cause it's realy exist ,it's not limit to halo effect when you rech near a big treasure the soil become hot !,....

best regards
Alex

Hi Great_Alex,
I know it exist. Right, soil become "hot" sometimes.

I post here two small and no-value pieces of ancient metals that showed halo on my VLF some years ago, just to give them an idea of what I mean for ancient metals. I'm sure you understand me, but maybe they don't so I have to show to make them understand what we are talking about...here

2 from my mistery collection!

First piece, at left of the coin, is a scrap of copper rusty and in a strange way too... I scraped the surface to see some red-copper color.

Second piece, on the right, is hammered bronze, maybe the lower part of a small nail.

Objects were found in a undisturbed soil layer with dating (by local university and others) of about 2600years old.

1st piece showed the strongest "halo" : found it at 4-5cm out of maximum range I then measured in air.

2nd piece (bronze) just at 2-3 cm more than max in-air range.

My hypotesis is that 1st piece, copper, showed a great halo due to shape not composition, but I'm not sure of that.

Best regards,
Max

[Great_Alex]

Hey max,JP

i believe you . i have struggle with some bigger problem : moving treasures in the ground
if i didn't see with my eyes i never believe that .
but about halo effect it's very good stuff always make my work very easy , i love that , i don't care that what they think about it cause it's realy exist ,it's not limit to halo effect when you rech near a big treasure the soil become hot !,....

best regards
Alex

[Max]

Hi,
I don't want sell anything... I'm not a manifacturer...don't belong to any MD industry...I'm not interested if you "Unregistered" belive or not in "halo" effect for ancient buried non-ferrous items.
This is one thing that anyone couldn't give you proofs by now... so if you don't see it with your eyes you wouldn't belive it exist.

Same happened to me, before I saw it.
I didn't want belive it to exist before I've seen with my eyes the strange phenomenon. Then I've changed idea about.

When manifacturers claim that halo develops in few years... around non-ferrous objects they are, for me, my experience, actually lying: I never saw anything like that... few years buried e.g. copper item and halo effect, NEVER.
For me is pure BS to sell poor depth detectors anyone wouldn't buy otherwise.

What to say... at the end... and for many people change few if it exist or not !

Best regards,
Max