How Do I Magnetize Black Sand?????

[Melbeta]

I know some have done it. I found a place in the mountains, where I find a lot of fine gold, but it is mixed in black sand.

Now I can dry the concentrates, and then put a magnet inside a paper cup, and move it around in the dry concentrates, and it attracts the magentic black sand (magnetite), and take it over a waste basket, remove that magnet, and the magnetic black sands are gone...

But still in the concentrates, are black sand. Not magnetic though. If they were magnetic, I could easily get rid of them too!!!

I heard a guy made some transformer coils, some with Alternating Current, at the beginning of a slow moving rubber belt, then it moved under a second coil transformer, this last one running under Direct Current, and between the two, it created a magentic field in the remaining black sand.

Then he can pull out the rest of the black sands, and have just the precious metal concentrates.

Anyone have any knowledge on how to do it? I would like to build something to get rid of the black sands in some way. Better than a concentrating table.

[technos]

First, not all black sand is magnetic (such as chromite);
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromite
and hence won't be attracted to a magnet. There are other kinds of nonmagnetic black sand;

http://geology.about.com/od/sediment.../aboutsand.htm
http://geomaps.wr.usgs.gov/parks/coa...blacksand.html

Large particles of chromite may in fact be the "hot rocks" that some detectors pick up. maybe somebody could elaborate if they know more.

I heard a guy made some transformer coils, some with Alternating Current, at the beginning of a slow moving rubber belt, then it moved under a second coil transformer, this last one running under Direct Current, and between the two, it created a magnetic field in the remaining black sand.

That sounds way too complicated. Assuming that the sand you have is in fact some sort of magnetite you should be able to collect it with a strong magnet (perhaps hard drive magnet) without magnetizing it;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...parator_hg.jpg

But if for some reason you wanted to give the iron particles a stronger magnetic field themselves, I'd put the black sands in a pill bottle and use an electric "tool magnetizer." There are circuits around to do this, but I have a hard time recommending most of them as they could not be UL rated as they plug directly in the wall and I think sacrifices safety for simplicity unnecessarily. If you do decide to build such a circuit, use a circuit breaker feeding into rheostat then an isolation transformer, which you would plug the circuit into. I speak from experience, it can be a downer when stuff catches fire or you get "kicked" as if by a mule.

The circuit you are referring to could be more that just magnetizing sand, it could be some sort of separation process (as it has moving parts).

[Melbeta]

It is being done...................

First of all, I understand what you are saying, but you are missing the point. It is BEING done in Boulder Colorado by a friend of H. Glenn Carson, the writer and metal detector author.

A man in Boulder, Colorado, USA, is running a sand recovery business, and at the same time, is recovering placer gold from the sand. He is taking the sand from the Platte River. He sells the sand as a normal business, and as a side business is recovering precious metals like gold from the sand.

What I said in the original posting, is true. All I want to know is a method of how to do it.

They are using 220-240V AC to power the first set of two transformers, where the black sand concentrates first travel by way of a rubber belt conveyor, under the two transformers, which create a magnetic field.

Then the black sand hits a magnet, and what was magnetized by the first two transformers is attracted to the magent.

The the remaining black sands travel on, and then go under the last transformer, it is powered by DC voltage, instead of AC voltage, and is again magnetized, and then goes under another magnet.

I have no idea why they are first using AC voltage to magnetize the black sands, then on the final attempt, using DC voltage to magnetize the remaining black sands. Someone more educated in transformers will have to answer that question for me....

It is said that about 99% to 99.5% of the black sands are removed from the precious metals concentrates that way. They did run the ordinary sand through a concentrater first, in order to get it all down to black sands and precious metal concentrates.

[technos]

First of all, I understand what you are saying, but you are missing the point. It is BEING done in Boulder Colorado by a friend of H. Glenn Carson, the writer and metal detector author.

No, I'm not missing the point. I didn't say that it couldn't be done. I just said that some sands are not magnetizable.

A man in Boulder, Colorado, USA, is running a sand recovery business, and at the same time, is recovering placer gold from the sand. He is taking the sand from the Platte River. He sells the sand as a normal business, and as a side business is recovering precious metals like gold from the sand.

What I said in the original posting, is true. All I want to know is a method of how to do it.

I did not question the validity of your post. But you did not mention that this was on an industrial scale, which is something entirely different. I thought you were talking about black sand out of a pan or small sluice. As such, I was talking about a small circuit, not a large one. Most of the posts here deal with very small scale one person mining, not large efforts.

I have no idea why they are first using AC voltage to magnetize the black sands, then on the final attempt, using DC voltage to magnetize the remaining black sands.

It could be that the first pass through the coils demagnetized some black sand as much as magnetizing it. So the DC coil would act like a regular magnet to remagnetize and possibly orientate the fine sand in the right direction for the final magnet to pick it up.

It is said that about 99% to 99.5% of the black sands are removed from the precious metals concentrates that way. They did run the ordinary sand through a concentrater first, in order to get it all down to black sands and precious metal concentrates.

So how much do they manage to recover from this?

[Melbeta]

I am not going to do it industrially myself....

Okay, the person in Boulder CO is doing it on an industrial scale, I myself am older and I want to do it myself, to the concentrates I recover from a sluice box. I can come up with quite a bit in one day, just shoveling form a flood plain. It is sufficient that I would build one, if I knew how.

A book was written by H. Glenn Carson regarding his friend, called The Extraction of Free Gold, how his friend has done it, and the book has photos and details, mentions basically what he did and what he used, but does not give the main technican details on the specifics. So I figured some person here, familiar with transformers and/or electromagnets might have some ideas. I know a guy in town, who probably could build the equipment, if I knew what to do....

You can read more about it in this search link:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

He recovered the magnetic black sand first, before they even begin to try to magnetize the remaining black sand. I do not know the volume of what he is doing, but seen a photo of the recovered gold, and it is pretty good. And the author made it clear, that the experimenter does not want to be bothered by people asking him the details. So I have not tried to track him down.

[homefire]

Some of your black sands are not Magnetic.

There for you are not able to extract them that way.

They are made up of Garnet, and other dark Crystal dust and sands.

There specific gravity is quite high and that is why they stick in the pan.

http://prospecting.atspace.com/blacksand.html

Just pan it out!

[technos]

I myself am older and I want to do it myself,

I think you are among friends here in that respect.

I can come up with quite a bit in one day, just shoveling form a flood plain. It is sufficient that I would build one, if I knew how.

Well, not all black sand is ore carrying. You should assay the sand first to see what you would get for your effort versus the cost of the machine that you would want to build. His sand business offsets the cost of processing the sand on such a large scale for this to work. Remember, the gold part is the "side" business, as it probably could not be the entirety of it for the amount of sand that this probably takes to make it work.

If you have just black sand, why not put that through a regular gold concentrator? Is the gold too fine?

A book was written by H. Glenn Carson regarding his friend, called The Extraction of Free Gold, how his friend has done it,

The "free" part is what's hard! We all attain to it, but there is the small thing of getting the right equipment, effort, etc.

mentions basically what he did and what he used, but does not give the main technican details on the specifics. So I figured some person here, familiar with transformers and/or electromagnets might have some ideas. I know a guy in town, who probably could build the equipment, if I knew what to do....

This book was written in 1973 apparently. When I have some time three months from now I might look up a copy. But I get the idea of what is trying to be done. But, as I suggested with the assay above, it's a question of math. You are suggesting processing a large amount of black sand to find some small amount of gold. I recommend comparing this to just using a nugget detector to find the occasional grain/nugget of gold in a placer deposit. I do not know which would be best for you in your locality/situation.

I might would be interested in trying to engineer such a device at some point in the future, but other obligations prevent me from doing more than make an occasional post or suggestion ATM.

[technos]

Some of your black sands are not Magnetic.

There for you are not able to extract them that way.

They are made up of Garnet, and other dark Crystal dust and sands.

There specific gravity is quite high and that is why they stick in the pan.

http://prospecting.atspace.com/blacksand.html

Just pan it out!

It should be remembered that in some places there are other precious stones searching for, like sapphires/garnets besides just gold.

The one issue that I have with the machines in that link is that gold is not magnetic, and would not necessarily be carried along with the black sand on the drum. Concentrators seem more logical. Just an observation.

[homefire]

That little machine is not intended to save the gold.

Just Eliminate the Magnetic Black sands.

[technos]

That little machine is not intended to save the gold.

Just Eliminate the Magnetic Black sands.

Ahhh! So then you pan/sluice the regular sand for the gold.

[Melbeta]

Yes I know that is true in some places.....

Some of your black sands are not Magnetic.

There for you are not able to extract them that way.

They are made up of Garnet, and other dark Crystal dust and sands.

There specific gravity is quite high and that is why they stick in the pan.

http://prospecting.atspace.com/blacksand.html

Just pan it out!

Up in the Breckenridge gold placer areas, that is definitely true, but they are bits and pieces of semi-precious gemstones, not actually black sands.
It conists of bits of garnets, ameythists, quartz, smoky quartz, and some topaz mixed in the black sands.

Where I find a bunch of gold placer material, mainly consisting of gold and silver, it is primarily black sands, and there is too much to pan out and separate. Right now, the only way is to clean it with soap, then mercury method, and the Boulder magnetic method would greatly speed up and enhance the recovery method, which is why I seek it... I have tried everything, and what I seek is the solution, contrary to suggestions.

[Melbeta]

Concentrators get the concentrations....

Concentrators were used by the sand business to gather the concentrations, I am familiar with them, but he found too, as I found. that the fines are too fine, and you need a magnetic separation unit to remove the final black sands.

Then what you have is a container full of gold material. I believe H. Glenn Carson is still selling that book, and it is not that expensive, and it contains a world of knowledge pertaining to the recovery of gold from sand concentrations, and the recovery of gold from black sands. It just briefly mentions and pictures the magnetic separation unit, not sufficiently so that I can build the three magnetizer transformers. You know, amps, watts, windings and so on. That is what I seek, the technical information, then I will have a transformer person build the three transformers, and then figure out how to power it all up. I do not really even need the moving rubber belt assembly, that was to spread it out, to apply the magnetic waves to a mass of concentrates, my volume of concentrates will not be as much as his, and I can just spread it out, and move it through the magnetic equipment in another way.

[Melbeta]

First, but not least..............

Ahhh! So then you pan/sluice the regular sand for the gold.

Okay, one uses a concentrater to separate the sand from the concentrates from the sluice box. Then you end up with black sands and sylvanite and calaverite material. It is all fine material. The black sands are more coarse in nature.

I can dry the concentrates, and use a strong magnetic in a paper cup, and drag it through the concentrates, and remove the black sands that are magnetic.

So after that, all I have left, is the sylvanite and and calaverite fines, plus the black sands that are not magnetic!

So what I seek is the technical information, for building a pulsating high voltage AC transformer, actually two of them were found to be necessary, to magnetize the remaining black sands. Then they were removed by a suspended magnetic. Then the remaining concentrates travelled under the last transformer, it was an AC transformer, and I do not know its specifications either, it finished up the magnetizing or re-magnetizing of the partially magnetized material, and then travelled under another strong magnet, and what came out then was just the gold concentrates.

It is all in the book, "The Extraction of Free Gold" by Al McGowan, written by H. Glenn Carson, witnessed by H. Glenn Carson, and sold by Carson Enterprises at his mail order location, at Drawer 71, Deming, NM 88031. I do not know what he sells the book for now, but when I bought it, it was only $2.00. Printed in 1973. It has a world of information on separation of sand and concentrates, and separation of gold fines and black sands, even has many many photos of the operation, but just does not have the entire specifications of what the equipment consisted of...

[Melbeta]

Where you can get the book....

Okay, the book today is higher priced, here is the lowest price I found, $7.95, with only $2.00 shipping cost. You will find that Al McGowan, was a gold prospector, who decided to see what kind of gold he could get from a sand operation. And he got a lot of gold from the sand. And sold the sand also...

http://www.akmining.com/cart/bookgoldmining.htm

You will notice, that AKmining regards the book highly, and is selling it!

And here is a photo of the book, and you can see, in the gold scale, the amount of gold fines he recovered, VERY fine gold indeed.

[maikl]

Best to do electrolysis of gold (silver) you will get 99.5% purity. Looking on the Internet as they do electrolysis of gold.