TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[tiktak]

Hi

Hi,
Molzar.
Thank you very much.
I still cant see some wirements.But this is more than enought for now.
I have doubts that there is a small mistake somewhere.In ower PCB that we have for TGS.So I wanna redraw it according your pictures.
Why you think that exact copy cant be made according the pictures?This is one side PCB and almost everithing can be seen.So I think that wont be so hard.
I will post here when I have progress.
And will ask you if I miss something.
Thanks.
see you.

[Eugene52]

TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

I want to wish everyone on this forum a very Blessed and Happy Thanksgiving . I sure miss this forum , I should be back on everyday again in a few weeks......Take care Everyone...............Regards...........Eugene

[Molzar]

Hi guys,

Problem with scan is are standoffs peined into pcb on component side and soldered other side, not removeable. I tried scan not useful image, I say this before.

What else you need?, photos show good enough for routing. Components are layed out close to original component layout (below)(Kurtie100) who ever made must have original TGS. That why values on component layout is more accurate than schematic.

To make exact copy I think impossible (without disassembling the pcb)
I not have finer equipment for photos. So no "telephoto" pics. Let me know what you not figure out and I help.

Molzar

[simonbaker]

Thanks again Molzar!





I think to scan it would be easy and would give reliable results for an accurate PCB.And it should be possible as there is no wires beloa the PCB.

Regards,
Fred.

Scan would be good, but we need an exact matching image of component side also.

-SB

[Fred]

Fred,

Here ya go!

Thanks again Molzar!

Thanks for additional pictures!

The reason you want long distance with zoom is to reduce the "parallax" distortion -- but not too big a problem if both pictures taken from same distance and angle. Also perpendicular to board very important as mentioned.

Thank you very much for taking time to share info on original TGS, very exciting to see it and compare to other reverse-engineered info.

Cheers,

-SB

I think to scan it would be easy and would give reliable results for an accurate PCB.And it should be possible as there is no wires beloa the PCB.

Regards,
Fred.

[simonbaker]

Thanks for additional pictures!

Now: for people to help with verifying circuit schematic, the best (in fact required) pictures would be one of front and one of back, taken exactly perpendicular to board from a distance with zoom. The pictures should include the board edges (for registration/allignment of pictures). Of course it would help if exactly same distance for both shots, but we can probably adjust size with software if resolution is good. Perpendicular angle is critical.

The reason you want long distance with zoom is to reduce the "parallax" distortion -- but not too big a problem if both pictures taken from same distance and angle. Also perpendicular to board very important as mentioned.

Your other pictures are excellent to help identify the parts and various wiring to pots, switches, etc.

Thank you very much for taking time to share info on original TGS, very exciting to see it and compare to other reverse-engineered info.

Cheers,

-SB

[Molzar]

TikTak, Simon,

Some more shots....

Molzar

[tiktak]

Hi

Hi,
Molzar.
Thanks for the pictures.
I dont wanna rush you.I am trying to make PCB acording your pictures.The probleme is that there is a lighted spot on the picture of the back side of the PCB.So please make another one when you have time.
Thanks.
nice work.Now the thread will be complete.I have 25c us,5c and one 50c somwhere.
But my results with 25c and 27dd that is on my test setup are not so good.
We will see

[Molzar]

Hi Molzar,

Thanks for all those informations.

I don´t know why the pics you posted are waiting aproval, but maybe you could try again zipped or on rapidshare .

Best regards,
Fred.

Fred,

Here ya go!

[simonbaker]

Did some measurements on original TGS with original coil (8 inch)


TX Voltage = 8.2 pk-pk! Was very shocked this was so low! Checked supply voltages (11.8V batt, 7.9V off regulator) so those are OK. Could be due to coil (Tx ~23 ohms) but seems very low. Any ideas why?

Also looked at Tx Rx signals on scope. Are many different from handmade with DD. Rx shift to left with copper coin. Will have to do better experiments, to much rush now.

Also one more component difference (on schematic) 10pf cap on pins 6 & 7 of LF353 is 5pf. Don't think big change but that is it. I update schematic.

Molzar

I believe that voltage is perfectly typical. My circuit gets 10 v p-p. The reason I think is the feedback through the JFet TR2. Every JFet has different Vgs-cutoff voltage, which affects when it starts limiting the oscillation voltage, so we all get different TX voltage. Try Ivconic's trick - bypass the JFet by connecting the source to drain and then check the Tx voltage - it should jump to about 16 v p-p. But the waveform may be quite distorted, I don't know if that matters or not.

I just tried this with my circuit and it did not change the depth significantly -- surprised me! But my circuit is not tuned up well at this time, and much noise around. Still, I expected to see more effect.

If you want to increase voltage without distortion, you can add diodes to the zener diode to change the threshold voltage in the feedback path (LEDs work well), or find a JFet with different Vgs-cutoff voltage (I think you want smaller Vgs-cutoff). With these mods, you can probably get 14 V p-p without much distortion easily.

(I don't mean mods on original TGS! Of course leave as is! )

Regards,

-SB

[Fred]

Hi Molzar,

Thanks for all those informations.

I don´t know why the pics you posted are waiting aproval, but maybe you could try again zipped or on rapidshare .

Best regards,
Fred.

[Molzar]

TX Voltage

Did some measurements on original TGS with original coil (8 inch)


TX Voltage = 8.2 pk-pk! Was very shocked this was so low! Checked supply voltages (11.8V batt, 7.9V off regulator) so those are OK. Could be due to coil (Tx ~23 ohms) but seems very low. Any ideas why?

Also looked at Tx Rx signals on scope. Are many different from handmade with DD. Rx shift to left with copper coin. Will have to do better experiments, to much rush now.

Also one more component difference (on schematic) 10pf cap on pins 6 & 7 of LF353 is 5pf. Don't think big change but that is it. I update schematic.

Molzar

[Molzar]

Hi,
Molzar.
Thanks for the pictures.
Thy are Pending Approval and I cant download them.But I will wait.
Can you tell me also how were the disc pot set in your air tests?Also can you post results for 2 euro coin and 50c,10c euro coins.
I mean good loud detection not only craked sound.
See you soon
p.s.what d is this original coil in cms?

Hi TikTak,

Pot set at minimum descr, 9 on Sense.

No Euro coins, I live USA long time.

US 25 cent is silver is 2.4 cm diameter. Yes, when sound is smooth.

Original coil 8 inch open centre (White Colour) = 20cm

Molzar

[Max]

Ha ha, yes I have too many nutty ideas but sometimes they work! I figured if we could get undistorted photo of both sides we could help you do some work checking schematic. I think now the schematic is probably correct but the real truth is the PCB.

It is brilliant Molzar got his hands on actual TGS, we really have answers to those little questions. Now more confidence to modify knowing what we start with.



-SB

It will be interesting if Molzar tests homemade Double-D coil with real TGS.

Hi,
I think he will find same performance as on homemades or better. Much in TGS/TGSL depends on components layout on the PCB, and tesoro's one is sure the right way.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Bottom one is GND BAL, this is one to adjust coil.

Top one is for "Notch Width".

Looks nice...Good Luck!

Molzar

I think it's Leto's pcb...