TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Max]

Hi Ivconic,
have you made both Goldy and Vladimir's PCBs ?

If so... what about erratic noise ?

I'm trying to figure out what to do with a TGSL I wanna made but I'm puzzled about what PCB to choose cause there could be problems with noise propagation respect to the original (large) board that has notch.


What you suggest ?
What's your impressions ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi Ivica. I did n't finished the coil yet so i ask you.
I have a farm that it has a lot of ceramics and a lot of bronze coins. With xlt and gti when i reject the ceramics i lose a lot of depth. What about TGS???
Regards

Hi,
bricks ? pottery ? ceramics ? red-fired-clay ?

It's easy on TGS... all you need is setting good geb... as Ivconic suggested... disc of D-90 circuit will not pick up any of these if unit is well ground balanced.

Of course, large hot rocks or fired stuff could give problems but the situation is not even comparable than with PIs or other simpler VLFs.

Belive me... TGS is another story about that.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

You dont need to move Disc. pot to reject ceramics at TGS. You can adjust it with GEB trimmer to void ceramics,hot rocks and simillar. But you have to take it there and adjust it at that moment under those conditions...It will work just fine....of course you must make good coil...DD coil!
Regards!

[Geo]

Hi Ivica. I did n't finished the coil yet so i ask you.
I have a farm that it has a lot of ceramics and a lot of bronze coins. With xlt and gti when i reject the ceramics i lose a lot of depth. What about TGS???
Regards

[ivconic]

Hi Max

I see this tread (pinpoint) with 2 different roles.
From the one side you have absolute right.
But the other side (mi side) says other ......
Most of us constructing detectors only for hobby, to see how it work and to spend happy our time (other way is more cheap to buy a top model). So why to don't experiment with TGS pinpoint ???????/
My regards

Interesting point of view Geo.
I have to add here something more(might be important for newbies);
I am full time prospector. This growed more than plain hobby to me!
Tesoro Golden Sabre (Light) is more than serious machine - beleive me!
You will realize this first time you visit some serious terrain (plenty of those in Greece). All laugh stopped when i started to collect serious items with it!
Comparing to previous results with other machines, TGSL is winner without questions. As "hi-profile" prospector i am not visitng any more "lite" terrains just for fun. That time passed long time ago. Further i am not really interested to waste to much time on distinguishing what type of metal is detected. Only thing really interesting me is: iron or coloured metal? So having full scale of discrimination is not most important thing. Usually i move very quickly when prospecting. When it beeps pretty clear in disc mode i dig, otherwise when it is obvious that iron is detected i usually do not dig. Using this method i am able to walk over huge area in no time. Do not waste to much time on diging "suspectable" signals. And usually this method gives much of benefits. Pockets or bag full with coloured items. Aint no doubts in received signals...why? Cose terrains are far away from any civilisation, roads, places man usualy visit. So few possibility, that coloured item to be some junk or simillar. TGS is very serious in those situations.Deep,fast and efective! About Disc scale; most important thing for me here is possibillty to reject foils! Great TGS! Adjuted Disc. pot at "6" absolutely rejects foils (cigarettes packages,chocolate packages...any other kind of Al foil, pull tabs etc)...
So this project - TGSL is much more than just constructing exercise to me.
If i return back to 1996./97. and think again.....i actually was prospector and started with constructing...not constructor who later started prospecting...
Despite other machines i have/had (Garrett GTI2500, Eagle II,1266,Colt,1220B,CZ5,Troy X3....) i do respect this TGS much cose it showed as very useable and much faster to work with than many others.
Second one i can put in my favorite list should be Troy X3 (no doubts)! But sad fact is my X3 is unadjusted and temporary unuseable....Damn!
Regards!

[Max]

Hi,
made a bit of "patchwork" with royal and TGS... uhm

though I'm not really interested in that... just to spend by 5cents !

Will it work ?

Who knows ? I've made in 5 minutes... don't take it for tested thing ... it isn't !

Only way to know is try it... but I can't so I don't care too much

Purpose is changing all-metal from motion to non-motion mode (for pinpointing targets) and add, of course ,the fast retune as in the royal sabre.

Ideas ? Comments ? Dubts ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi Max
I see this tread (pinpoint) with 2 different roles.
From the one side you have absolute right.
But the other side (mi side) says other ......
Most of us constructing detectors only for hobby, to see how it work and to spend happy our time (other way is more cheap to buy a top model). So why to don't experiment with TGS pinpoint ???????/
My regards

Hi Geo,
yes sure. I agree ...we can play with this feature too... it's also easy to apply to existent TGS design... and requires few stuff more.

What I said is just that maybe this feature is not so essential or useful for who made already the TGS using a DD coil... but then anyone is free of doing so if think it could be a good thing for testing... or using better the detector in the hobby.

I think is not good FOR ME... and that apply just to me cause other people could think otherwise.

The same for "2 tones" of royal approach... I think is no good but others can built it on TGS using same circuit parts.

They work for sure also on TGS that's pretty similar for other parts so... anyone will choose what's better for his personal needs... if adding them or not.

Best regards,
Max

[Geo]

Hi Max
I see this tread (pinpoint) with 2 different roles.
From the one side you have absolute right.
But the other side (mi side) says other ......
Most of us constructing detectors only for hobby, to see how it work and to spend happy our time (other way is more cheap to buy a top model). So why to don't experiment with TGS pinpoint ???????/
My regards

[Max]

What do you say to modify the TGS??
If we add a channel for Pinpoint ?? (the upper LF442 from Royal)
Regards

Hi Geo,
About the mod: yes we can do very easy... just add the upper channel of royal to TGS and will have it. Another fet + the double op. amp. and some other stuff... + the 3-position switch like in bandidoII... with "retune" position I mean. That's it.

Real question is: it's worth having it on TGS ?

I personally don't think it's a big improvement having a pinpoint function on TGS unless you use a concentric coplanar coil... then not for me, I use a large DD coil with it... and you know that's not the same thing of having a polo or 9x8'' concentric coplanar to do the same thing.

With round CC coils is very nice using pinpointing (like e.g. in bandidoII) to better find the spot were the target is just under... but with DD coils ...and great too it's not the same thing.

You will find the central line were target lye but then you have X-ing it by another angle to find the spot... of course, better than having just motion detection... but I think that's about the same in practice: you have to search for target much more than with concentric.

What do you think ?

Best regards,
Max

[Geo]

What do you say to modify the TGS??
If we add a channel for Pinpoint ?? (the upper LF442 from Royal)
Regards

[Max]

about 2 tones generation in royal sabre

Hi,
this post just to explain the trick of two tones in royal sabre...

How it works ?

First of all you can notice there isn't any cd4024 in it that gives the frequencies for audio tones... the source of tones is the supply voltage converter ICL7660.

The ICL7660 has an input, pin 7, for the connection of an external capacitor that dictate the frequency of operation (from few KHz to 10KHz in standard 7660).

Now you can see in first picture the frequency obtained vs capacitance. Look at the higher freq. part you'll notice that with 100pF one get about 1KHz frequency and at about 80pF one get about something less 2KHz.

All it's related to the capacitance at pin 7 that could be 82pF or 92pF depending on the status of conduction of the TIS75 fet.

When in DISC mode , setting a value at notch pot , is possible defining a level of phase passed over or under which one or both capacitors are connected to PIN7 thus giving the two tones.

The frequency separation is of some hundred Hz and probably has no great influence on other parts of circuit , cause 7660 is an efficient device...and so voltage will vary a few from the low frequency to the higher and the reverse from hi to low.

This approach could be replicated in standard TGS using a VCO ic like the LM566 or e.g. an CD4046 internal VCO etc.

It is any good ? I have lot of dubts on it... my first problem with it is that the two tones separation threshold value is related to manual adjustment of the notch pot... that for me is a bad idea... the best will be adding 2more channels to get similar behaviour but with a fixed preset...

but then also the circuit start becoming complex.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hello Frends.

The Royal Sabre is not the same as the golden pcb.
Think it is not a good project to make !!
Keep it simple.....

Best regards.

Ap

Hi Ap,
I totally agree. It will be better making e.g. BandidoII than Royal... even without "2 tones"... but with non-motion all metal for pinpointing (and motion all-metal too) than it.

But problem with bandidoII could be ED-120 discrimination that is no good for me... so one have to modify disc to get the D-90 like in TGS. Just this will be enough.

The fact that "2 tones" of royal depends of notch setting is also another worse thing to me... it will be much better having a two tone calibrated on a specific phase angle or having more than 2 tones ...3 or 4 with just one lower freq for ferrous stuff/unwanted.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Max, take a look on this schematic!! I seems you had right! There is 51pF...
So first thing i should do is to replace 330pF with it...to check for sinus there..
Be back...

Hi,
look at frequency: 12KHz at that frequency and with 57pF the output at pin1 will be sinusoidal for sure.

Our "problem" with the 100pF cap is about frequency and reactance at cap... lowering a bit the frequency to 14KHz could solve it... but we need changing coil or caps params at osc. Much better changing the cap at LF353 pin2 using something 47 to 68pF to gain same undistorted wave.

About 12KHz , we have same caps in oscillator in that schematic, so I guess that who made schematics referred to a particular coil used with it that gives tx at 12KHz.

The pinpoint mode is somehow similar to bandidoII : like an all metal non-motion with manual retune.

The Royal had also a kind of 2 tones ID... using notch for setting the disc threshold between bad/good metals... like in golden sabre plus.

Kind regards,
Max

[ApBerg]

Royal Sabre

Hello Frends.

The Royal Sabre is not the same as the golden pcb.
Think it is not a good project to make !!
Keep it simple.....

Best regards.

Ap

[sharky]

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