Designing and marketing new metal detectors.

[sawmill]

This is a real high tech piece of information.
The characters name is Yosmite Sam.

[Midas]

This is a real high tech piece of information.
The characters name is Yosmite Sam.

Yeah I know, but he'll always be Sammity sam to me Its probably just a result of me mishearing it as a child. Obviously I'm not the only one anyway, searching "Sammity Sam" in Google still takes you directly to his wiki.

[Qiaozhi]

My feeling is that most women\girls that are interested in MD couldn't care less if their detector is black or pink.

Personally I think a pink metal detector would bomb big time.

Women/girls who are concerned, about whether things they buy are pink or not, will never be interested in grubbing around in a muddy field searching for buried metal objects. So I agree with Midas, a pink detector would have no market value whatsoever.

I've previously heard several people complaining about the "stupid yellow color" of the Garrett ACE detectors. So far, "black" is king in the metal detector world.

[UncleMatt]

Yeah OK, perhaps it's a minority of people that would let their subconscious prejudices affect their decision. But you have to balance that with extra sales you would get from a having a true, girly girl detector. My feeling is that most women\girls that are interested in MD couldn't care less if their detector is black or pink.

I never said everyone would want Sammity Sam. It was just the most obvious to me. Common he's a classic. Bound to appeal to the kids.. and immature 31 year old's such as myself

I guess the key is market research. Personally I think a pink metal detector would bomb big time. But if you made some calls and found that there was 1000s of women who really wanted to get into the hobby and were just waiting for their sex appropriate MD to come onto the market. Then sure, go for it.

Midas

I agree research is key. And it may be that barriers are too great to overcome among certain demographics. I just think you have to step outside your own box sometimes to perceive what you are missing, and who else your product could be marketed to. Maybe many women would buy a MD is they felt they were considered in its design. Just changing the color, but not the abilities of the MD, is one way to accomplish that fairly cheaply.

[Tinkerer]

If grown men can't handle the fact their MD is offered by the manufacturer in colors that might appeal to someone other than them, that would be a pretty sad state of affairs...

And any avatars/on screen characters would need to appeal to the demographic they are aimed at, not just expect all people to want "Sammity Sam". Many companies often hurt themselves by this kind of mindset. Look at how GM has operated for decades: "People will buy what we want them to", instead of "We need to appeal to our consumers and provide products they actually want". I think often executives get in a rut, and have such huge egos, that they think what THEY want is what everyone wants. Often not the case, and thinking that way is a path to your business tanking.

Great, here we get a bit into the marketing.

We need to talk a lot more about the marketing.

There are fundamental differences between marketing hobby products and marketing professional products.

The hobby market is more geared to what the customer likes and takes a fancy to.

The professional wants a tool that does the job for him. The marketing needs to address foremost his needs.

Marketing is to generate sales. Happy customers bring more customers.
A lot of gadgetry may boost the sales momentarily, but in the long run, solid performance will be the winner.

Having said that, we must define what is a gadget and what really enhances the performance.

For certain applications like a vehicle mounted search loop, an accelerometer might be a very big boost to performance. The same can be said for a GPS. But I would not even think about it for a low cost, hand held, non military mine detector.

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

Its a very difficult issue Tinkerer. Lots of people here have the skills required I'm sure, and while its community based thing without any intention of making a profit they may even be willing to contribute. But as soon as there is potential spoils to divide up it becomes a hell of a lot harder. Who decides what a contribution is worth? What about the capital investment ? Somebody will have to provide it and would reasonably expect a % of the profits in return. Who actually does the leg work organizing manufacture and sales? They should probably draw an income from the group to cover their time. These are probably just some of the issues that caused the collapse of previous commercial design groups.

On the mine detector MD. I don't think Carl was suggesting a detector capable of clearing modern mines. As you say the performance required to do that is really very high and assuming you could build it, it would command a higher price in the nugget shooter market. Rather something very simple and cheap that only needs to detect older mines with full metal casings. The surf pi is probably perfect.

Midas

Commercial design group? Did I mention or imply that? Not my intention at all. This must be another "lost in translation" problem. Happens all the time when we zip around the whole world with our discussions.

My intention was, or is, to discuss the feasibility of some ideas.

I have my own opinion about things. Others have different opinions.

Discussing the different opinions I can learn something and widen my horizon.

My opinions might be totally wrong. If I do not discuss opinions with other people I might be stuck with my wrong opinions for the rest of my life.

If, by any chance, some good ideas prove to be economically feasible, somebody younger than me might want to grab the opportunity ad pursue it.

There are members from all over the world on this forum. It is the only technical forum about metal detectors that I know of. Is this not the right place for discussing all aspects of metal detectors?

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

Matt


the bluetooth operate in the 2.4 ghz band so it may be not much of a issue.



now thats where the problem happens, from what i'm finding in my experiments, i plan to only write to the lcd screen when a "peak" signal occurs, kinda like a snapsot of the target decay, constanly writing to the LCD screen may make the sweep speed painfully slow

so to apply this to a smartphone, you would only look at it when you have something instresting in your headset

Philip

Cell phones and Walky-Talky's are known to cause interference in detectors.

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

Women/girls who are concerned, about whether things they buy are pink or not, will never be interested in grubbing around in a muddy field searching for buried metal objects. So I agree with Midas, a pink detector would have no market value whatsoever.

I've previously heard several people complaining about the "stupid yellow color" of the Garrett ACE detectors. So far, "black" is king in the metal detector world.

So far, "black" is king in the metal detector world

This shows that these detectors have not been designed for the tropical world.
If I were to leave a black detector in the sun for one hour, outside of my house I would burn my hands on it.
If it was a waterproof detector, it would explode.

I remember a discussion some years ago, with a diver who was badly shaken when his underwater detector exploded from being exposed to the heat. He reckoned that it could have killed him if it happened while he had it in his hands.

Ha ha, imagine that to happen with a mine detector!!!! Imagine the headlines!!!!

Tinkerer

[ivconic]

"...If I do not discuss opinions with other people I might be stuck with my wrong opinions for the rest of my life..."

Well said!
Truth!
One man band is never good choice. Team will always be in a huge advance. That's why forums like this one is beneficial for all participants.
Sharing opinions is most crucial thing in these conversations.

[ivconic]

"...So far, "black" is king in the metal detector world..."

Black and dark green too.
Garrett's from GT and GTI series are looking nice!
ACE series are bananas (either way)!

[Tinkerer]

"...So far, "black" is king in the metal detector world..."

Black and dark green too.
Garrett's from GT and GTI series are looking nice!
ACE series are bananas (either way)!

Military like to use colors that fade into the background.

For a non-military mine detector a color that is easily seen, in other words high contrast to the back ground, would be much better.

Some time ago, I walked into into the no-go zone of an African-Bee hive. Somehow the bees objected to the peep of the metal detector and attacked me.
I ran.
After running far enough and counting the 21 bee stings I got, I realized I had dropped the detector somewhere. The bright yellow and white colors sure helped finding it in the tall brush.

So maybe we should make the mine detector of a bright pink color easy to find in any background.
Or maybe not, it would not sell!!!!!!!!

Tinkerer

[sawmill]

Hello Tinkerer

Would you mind if I posted some helpful information from a
real subsistence,miner/prospectors point of view ? I am not
qualified to get into the electronics part,but I do Know about
what is useful or needed in the field.

The color is the last thing ,that should even be considered .
But I would pick a neutral color,if it gets to the point of being
a real working machine. I will not say any more unless you
think it may help .

[Mustafa]

Hi,

Black is my favorite color.
Coin prospecting and digging is illegal activity here so we go hunting from dusk till down.
I don't want anybody recognize me before I see them.

At some risky places we don't use any light.
I started with Whites Silver Eagle and XLT and memorized all setup menus to configure them blindly because LCD light is very dangerous for us.

XLT's LCD also makes it difficult to place it in a small bag. I prefer compact ones.
First thing when we got a new detector is we shorten plastic rod because it does not fit in a small backpack.

[Tinkerer]

Hello Tinkerer

Would you mind if I posted some helpful information from a
real subsistence,miner/prospectors point of view ? I am not
qualified to get into the electronics part,but I do Know about
what is useful or needed in the field.

The color is the last thing ,that should even be considered .
But I would pick a neutral color,if it gets to the point of being
a real working machine. I will not say any more unless you
think it may help .

Hi Sawmill,

we are very interested to hear all opinions, specially the opinion of people who spend a lot of time in the field.
I believe that your expertise comes from years of searching and extracting gold nuggets from your own claims. Your experience and opinions will be a very valuable help.

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

Hi,

Black is my favorite color.
Coin prospecting and digging is illegal activity here so we go hunting from dusk till down.
I don't want anybody recognize me before I see them.

At some risky places we don't use any light.
I started with Whites Silver Eagle and XLT and memorized all setup menus to configure them blindly because LCD light is very dangerous for us.

XLT's LCD also makes it difficult to place it in a small bag. I prefer compact ones.
First thing when we got a new detector is we shorten plastic rod because it does not fit in a small backpack.

fit in a small backpack

I think this is a very good point.

Tinkerer