Tesoro Eldorado on the bench

[Max]

Boooooahahahahahahaha!
Max you are not reading my previous posts!
Ha,ha,ha!!!
My joke succeed!
Cool 'bro...
It is a sort of "dead" season here on forum; nobody post nothing interesting...so i was thinking to make a little muss here....to kill plague!

Is it because of the deep winter or what? Nobody posts nothing interesting!?

I read it just after posting that!

So it succeded!

Uhm... I was out for a while, but yes, I'm sure you're right about... few new posts of interesting content maybe it's cause people found all these tesoro's threads so good... that can't resist making one (expecially tgs/tgsl) so being few interested in anything else !

I think that VLF homebrew success scenario is mostly related to TGS here... and few other projects (Sasho's and some others).

Maybe it's time for something new, but what ??? I still have the dang Relic Hawk PCB somewhere (? but where ?) but I don't know when I could "rebuild" lab... so I'm also watching here for something new... see few stuff.

But isn't winter the right season for experimenting on homebrew devices ???

All like skiing here... I see!

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Boooooahahahahahahaha!
Max you are not reading my previous posts!
Ha,ha,ha!!!
My joke succeed!
Cool 'bro...
It is a sort of "dead" season here on forum; nobody post nothing interesting...so i was thinking to make a little muss here....to kill plague!

Is it because of the deep winter or what? Nobody posts nothing interesting!?

[Max]

"...so Ivconic is not so crazy as it seems sometimes..."

So!? This was "behind the bush" all the time!?
Hmmm...i must reconsider my eventuall next appearance here.
My indiscrete attitude upon all the things in life seems are not accepted always and not by all people, as i thought it will be.
Robert was right when he once said to me: "Give up! They and us...we are totally different worlds. Don't waste your time...".
Now i see, he was very right, like always.
Thanks Max, good to know that, what you unintentionally said...
Many thanks and regards!

No, no please....
Don't misunderstud me... I'm talking here of some... ehm... recipes using unusual components...

But off-course I know you're not crazy, my friend!

Robert was right ? Uhm, maybe yes about a couple of things... sometimes it's hard understand differences here... but that's cause also we are from many countries and you know... in some places people think different at say 10Km distance... so it's easy understand why people from worldwide could have very different points of view.


Anyway, hope you'll not be upset about that post of above... was mostly intentional joke!

But the recipe is right, anyway. So, why making bad feelings ?

Indeed you contributed very much to that forums here... I'm, glad you don't make as Robert suggested.... and still here to exchange ideas with people.

Lets drink and forget about stupid jokes!

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Ivconic,
All genious are a little bit crazy.
Dont worry.I am shore that most peoples here think you are genious in MD/tesoro/ threads.
And this is prety clever.I just dont understand how you discover this?
Maybe luck?
Anyway keep on.
Do you see any diferances in performance with TL081/082 substitues?

What genius? You gone to far! I am just good "copying machine" - copying devices already designed by somebody else. Don't forget that! All the credits should go to Tesoro designers, not to me.
Real genius candidates here on this forum can be only people with their own projects...let me think...for sure Carl Moreland for many designs... for sure Sasho for many good and workable VLF designs....and ...who else!? I am sure there are several people more, and am very sorry cose can't remember right now and tell their names, but for sure; here we have at least 10 geniuses..if not more. That's why this forum is so great.
Me...and the rest of us...we are just enthusiasts and "repeaters" of somebody's else ideas. Dont forget that ever!

[ivconic]

erolunall.
Your friend obviusly dont now that the windings must be shielded before taking any measurment!!!

Ivconic
can you tell me what is this mass majorly used for?Some pypes or?
Also I dont see what are those values?And is this - for speaker?
I am making a little surprise here.
We will see what is gonna happen.

HV transformers for tv's and stuff like that... or connection spots at HV lines etc.etc...
Follow schematic...i am not sure what is that version...i made dozen versions and right now am very confused, same as you...dont have schematic and whole pcb right now in front of my eyes..!

[ivconic]

Ha,ha,ha!!! Dont take my previous post seriously...i am just peaking Max...making joke and trying to confuse him, of course!
Crazy or not (who can tell?) i am here and wont leave just like that.
I depend on this forum...this is the place to come and rest from everyday reallity..(as Max said once)..so..

[tiktak]

Ivconic,
All genious are a little bit crazy.
Dont worry.I am shore that most peoples here think you are genious in MD/tesoro/ threads.
And this is prety clever.I just dont understand how you discover this?
Maybe luck?
Anyway keep on.
Do you see any diferances in performance with TL081/082 substitues?

[Mustafa]

Robert was right when he once said to me: "Give up! They and us...we are totally different worlds. Don't waste your time...".

Hi ivconic,
Don't give up. I learned a lot from you.
Best wishes,
Mustafa

[simonbaker]

"...so Ivconic is not so crazy as it seems sometimes..."

So!? This was "behind the bush" all the time!?
Hmmm...i must reconsider my eventuall next appearance here.
My indiscrete attitude upon all the things in life seems are not accepted always and not by all people, as i thought it will be.
Robert was right when he once said to me: "Give up! They and us...we are totally different worlds. Don't waste your time...".
Now i see, he was very right, like always.
Thanks Max, good to know that, what you unintentionally said...
Many thanks and regards!

Just don't ever change Ivconic because you are one of great soul and spirit and fun of this website, good heart always comes through clear. Always good to hear your words.... Max too.

Cheers!

-SB

[Ultimate_Haze]

erolunall.
Your friend obviusly dont now that the windings must be shielded before taking any measurment!!!

Ivconic
can you tell me what is this mass majorly used for?Some pypes or?
Also I dont see what are those values?And is this - for speaker?
I am making a little surprise here.
We will see what is gonna happen.

[ivconic]

"...so Ivconic is not so crazy as it seems sometimes..."

So!? This was "behind the bush" all the time!?
Hmmm...i must reconsider my eventuall next appearance here.
My indiscrete attitude upon all the things in life seems are not accepted always and not by all people, as i thought it will be.
Robert was right when he once said to me: "Give up! They and us...we are totally different worlds. Don't waste your time...".
Now i see, he was very right, like always.
Thanks Max, good to know that, what you unintentionally said...
Many thanks and regards!

[Max]

explaination ?

"...Can you tell me is the lower part Al?This that is conected to coil?Because from this picture it look so..."

No. It is cheap plastic made in China! Ha,ha,ha! Poor Seben; bad detector and bad material also!


About mass:



It is so called "Smolit" and it is epoxy resin (2 components; mass and hardener). Just found a link:
http://www.fks.co.rs/fkse/maticna/pribor/text.htm

It is local manufacturer here in my country.
Mass is very tough to mix it. Once metal can opened; i divide mass in a portions for one coil each. Than i protect extra portions in separate cans and close those very good. Portion for one coil usually i mix very hard for 20 minutes to make it softer. Than join a bit of hardener and mix,mix,mix...sheeesh... tough in first few minutes, but than starts chemical reaction and mass is getting softer. It is getting a bit warm for a moment, not much...and last short. When mass is mixed good and soft, almost liquid than i add my secret ingredient!!!
After many experiments i found out that wasted laser printer powder is a hell of ingredient to join to prepared mass. Why? First i dont like natural color of the mass it is light gray...buiiiakk! Adding powder makes it black and nice. Also another trick; there is certain ammount of some iron particles in powder or something simillar so integrated in mass it is acting like some sort of very tiny "shield" against skin effects on coil surface. I noticed a much better stabillity in detector behavior when powder is joined in mass than without it. What a revelation! Hah!?
But you must be a carefull about powder dosage!! More than enough will degrade mass when dry and it will become porous. What is "enough" dosage for one coil? I can't tell exactly, i never measured, but it is very small ammount...let's say 0.3mL for one coil. So finaly, when dry, coil and bottom surface looks almost identical as any original coil....for example take a look at some Fisher 28cm spider coil, same look from bottom, looks also as same mass...shiny and black and hard as a steel! But Fisher 28cm Spider coil is (if i remember well) some 800gr weight, but my coils filled with this mass are usually from 580-650gr weight! I beat up the cat! (fisher) !!! Coil is 28cm (27cm). But newer 24cm coil is approx. 380gr. Same mass can be used also to fix and constrain any other coil. For example if you have housing for cc coil. You dont need to use much mass, just apply thin layer over windings and let it dry. You will be amazed after 10-12 hours. Also...if you want to protect whole pcb or just some important part from copying, scratch component values and apply thin layer of mass over those. Remember DBP2010? Remember the small piggy pcb? It was protected in simillar manner. Or lunatic ionic chamber in Mineoro? Ha,ha,ha! Same trick. Also in Future 2003 walkabout; whole pcb was covered with same or simillar material - not possible to scratch it without damaging some component... But in case of protection do NOT use laser powder in mixture!
Now i disclosed my top secret!!! Sheeeesh!!! Ha,ha,ha! Sooner or later i was about to post this here, anyway..so enjoy!
People! Do not discard your wasted laser powder! It is still very useablle! And a hell of a material for some works!
Cheers!

Ha, ha, ha...
my crazy friend Ivconic ! But... have to say I tested too... and works as described... so Ivconic is not so crazy as it seems sometimes!

There's also a serious explaination...

Yes, laser "powder"(formally "toner") is something useful sometimes.
It's made of fine carbon particles (around 10um) bond with polymers like styrene or acrilic base polymers and similar stuff. As I know it doesn't contain iron particles if not in traces, but what's interesting is that the carbon particles are set in place by heath melting the polymer stuff around (that happens in the laser printers or photocopiers machines).

The formula you explained is intriguing also for that fact: the heath generated by chemical reaction with hardner is probably the cause of melting of external particle film (as said made of styrene etc) causing particles mixing much more effective under electrical point of view.

The particles hold a charge (that's how they are attracted on the roll of e.g. printer... a laser beam creates an electrical drawing ... made of charges over the roll that's then covered by powder that only stay fixed in some places having complementary charge than particles...) , that's why they are so effective in shielding from e.g. grass effect (due to static charges): the particles are also conductive when insulant polymers melt and they can make charge routes inside the mass of filler.

That's why, as in Faraday's cage same we made of aluminium etc and under the Gauss' flux theorem the charges stay outside in the outmost surface of "conductor", in our case... the mass itself: under that principle we can also say that inside the mass there's NO electric field, thus giving no capacitive coupling with coil's turns... so solving the annoying grass stuff...of false (capacitive driven) signals.

But why they are conductive also ??? Carbon particles are , actually, graphite grains, same as in acquadag/oildag varnish , conductive paint!
When polymer melts graphite particles can touch freely and enstablish electrical paths, the more graphite, the more conductivity.
In VLF MDs weak graphite shields (low conductive) are enough to shield from electrical troubles, like capacitive due to wet grass for example.

So... instead of buying hi grade graphite...and becoming crazy about finding it, pay for it, shipping it abroad... you can find some old cartridge and get what you need, now and forever! That's very clever!
But remember, it works mostly cause of the heath of reaction, that's why probably the "time" when you add the powder is so critical... and quantity also... too few and you'll not get desired effect (too low conductivity) , too much and too much stuff to melt, can leave not enough room for further reaction and cause breech in the mass make it porous.

Also, take care: so small particles are a bit dangerous... avoid breathing them. Use some mask/breather at least, and mix outside home if possible.
Safety first.

Kind regards,
Max

Same as for TGSL; 6mH and 6.5mH

[gurdal]

Hi ivconic What is the coils mh values for the el dorado .

[ivconic]

"...Can you tell me is the lower part Al?This that is conected to coil?Because from this picture it look so..."

No. It is cheap plastic made in China! Ha,ha,ha! Poor Seben; bad detector and bad material also!


About mass:



It is so called "Smolit" and it is epoxy resin (2 components; mass and hardener). Just found a link:
http://www.fks.co.rs/fkse/maticna/pribor/text.htm

It is local manufacturer here in my country.
Mass is very tough to mix it. Once metal can opened; i divide mass in a portions for one coil each. Than i protect extra portions in separate cans and close those very good. Portion for one coil usually i mix very hard for 20 minutes to make it softer. Than join a bit of hardener and mix,mix,mix...sheeesh... tough in first few minutes, but than starts chemical reaction and mass is getting softer. It is getting a bit warm for a moment, not much...and last short. When mass is mixed good and soft, almost liquid than i add my secret ingredient!!!
After many experiments i found out that wasted laser printer powder is a hell of ingredient to join to prepared mass. Why? First i dont like natural color of the mass it is light gray...buiiiakk! Adding powder makes it black and nice. Also another trick; there is certain ammount of some iron particles in powder or something simillar so integrated in mass it is acting like some sort of very tiny "shield" against skin effects on coil surface. I noticed a much better stabillity in detector behavior when powder is joined in mass than without it. What a revelation! Hah!?
But you must be a carefull about powder dosage!! More than enough will degrade mass when dry and it will become porous. What is "enough" dosage for one coil? I can't tell exactly, i never measured, but it is very small ammount...let's say 0.3mL for one coil. So finaly, when dry, coil and bottom surface looks almost identical as any original coil....for example take a look at some Fisher 28cm spider coil, same look from bottom, looks also as same mass...shiny and black and hard as a steel! But Fisher 28cm Spider coil is (if i remember well) some 800gr weight, but my coils filled with this mass are usually from 580-650gr weight! I beat up the cat! (fisher) !!! Coil is 28cm (27cm). But newer 24cm coil is approx. 380gr. Same mass can be used also to fix and constrain any other coil. For example if you have housing for cc coil. You dont need to use much mass, just apply thin layer over windings and let it dry. You will be amazed after 10-12 hours. Also...if you want to protect whole pcb or just some important part from copying, scratch component values and apply thin layer of mass over those. Remember DBP2010? Remember the small piggy pcb? It was protected in simillar manner. Or lunatic ionic chamber in Mineoro? Ha,ha,ha! Same trick. Also in Future 2003 walkabout; whole pcb was covered with same or simillar material - not possible to scratch it without damaging some component... But in case of protection do NOT use laser powder in mixture!
Now i disclosed my top secret!!! Sheeeesh!!! Ha,ha,ha! Sooner or later i was about to post this here, anyway..so enjoy!
People! Do not discard your wasted laser powder! It is still very useablle! And a hell of a material for some works!
Cheers!