Can pinpointer detecting thin chain?

[Nupi]

Here's a link to the video. The quality is not very good, filmed web cam computer.
http://youtu.be/HVu8DPwGDm8

Hi aliaf,

You made a perfect Nupi pinpointer on a breadboard with the small coil and great performance.




regards, nupi.

[Polymer]

My Nupi Pinpointer now does not react to breath anymore, I sprayed the pcb with transparent acrylic paint.
I have epoxied the ferrite and siliconed the pipe and went to the beach to test it.

It works very well, but needed frequent adjusting to keep it at maximum sensitivity.
The beaches here have a lot of iron in them. I will post photos of the NPP next time.
It worked in the salt water too, but I couldnt make depth measurements, the sea was rough.

Nupi, I found that sensitivity of the pinpointer is also dependent of the DIRECTION the pinpointer is facing.
I first thought it was something in my house, but it is also at the beach.

When facing SOUTH and the SKY at around 45° it beeps the fastest.
When facing NORTH and the SKY at aroung 45° it beeps the slowest.

Could it be that the ferrite core is biased through the earths magnetic field?
Have you experienced this with the Nupi Pinpointer?

Just adjust to the sensitive point when its facing north and test it facing south.
That should make it bip, bip, bip....

I wonder what else it could be.

With kind regards, Polmer

[aliaf]

Hello Nupi.
Today even experiment with pinpointer on the breadboard.
Works just as well with capacitors Evox Rifa PHE450.
Tried several coils, similar parameters - all OK. Sensitivity remained almost unchanged.
But putting a chip CD4024BE stand together before the chip HFE4024 pinpointer silent. Apparently for CD4024 BE need to adjust the component values.
Hence it can be concluded that the more critical to pinpointer component (chip capacitor C2) and less critical to the coil (its shape), while maintaining a predetermined range of inductance.

[Nupi]

My Nupi Pinpointer now does not react to breath anymore, I sprayed the pcb with transparent acrylic paint.
I have epoxied the ferrite and siliconed the pipe and went to the beach to test it.

It works very well, but needed frequent adjusting to keep it at maximum sensitivity.
The beaches here have a lot of iron in them. I will post photos of the NPP next time.
It worked in the salt water too, but I couldnt make depth measurements, the sea was rough.

Nupi, I found that sensitivity of the pinpointer is also dependent of the DIRECTION the pinpointer is facing.
I first thought it was something in my house, but it is also at the beach.

When facing SOUTH and the SKY at around 45° it beeps the fastest.
When facing NORTH and the SKY at aroung 45° it beeps the slowest.

Could it be that the ferrite core is biased through the earths magnetic field?
Have you experienced this with the Nupi Pinpointer?

Just adjust to the sensitive point when its facing north and test it facing south.
That should make it bip, bip, bip....

I wonder what else it could be.

With kind regards, Polmer

Hi Polymer.

"Could it be that the ferrite core is biased through the earths magnetic field?
Have you experienced this with the Nupi Pinpointer?"

Yes I have.
You're right, that's because the earth magnetich field lines.
You're a good observer Polymer.

This phenomenon can also be had with the older TVs.
I thought that a TV, for instance Europe, not just in Mexico could use for their difference in earths magnetic field.
You got color dispersion on the the screen image. (The earths magnetic field are not the same everywhere on the earth).

I'm sure there are more people on Geotech that can tell you more about this phenomenon.

The influence of the earths magnetic field, on a IB - metal detector in connection
with mineralized ground is also of great importance for the detection depth.

But you should see this as a gift from Nupi.
You have not only a good PP but a compass to.

regards nupi.

[Nupi]

Hello Nupi.
Today even experiment with pinpointer on the breadboard.
Works just as well with capacitors Evox Rifa PHE450.
Tried several coils, similar parameters - all OK. Sensitivity remained almost unchanged.
But putting a chip CD4024BE stand together before the chip HFE4024 pinpointer silent. Apparently for CD4024 BE need to adjust the component values.
Hence it can be concluded that the more critical to pinpointer component (chip capacitor C2) and less critical to the coil (its shape), while maintaining a predetermined range of inductance.

Hi aliaf,

A capacitors Evox Rifa PHE450 is a MKP capasitor.

My experience with different coil showed that the, three core coil, gives 30% more depth.

The HFE4024 I have noticed no difference but it's an interesting observation.

regards nupi.

[Funfinder]

if the nupi-pp is a magnetometer, too,
its even more better and sensitive!

Don't care and make trouble, but try and get exp. to handle it - if its shape is correct (pentetration tip like a vibrator).

The more sensitive the better - you need a pinpointer anyway that is as good as a MD with 10cm or 4 inch coil, believe me!

[Polymer]

Hi Polymer.

"Could it be that the ferrite core is biased through the earths magnetic field?
Have you experienced this with the Nupi Pinpointer?"

Yes I have.
You're right, that's because the earth magnetich field lines.
You're a good observer Polymer.

This phenomenon can also be had with the older TVs.
I thought that a TV, for instance Europe, not just in Mexico could use for their difference in earths magnetic field.
You got color dispersion on the the screen image. (The earths magnetic field are not the same everywhere on the earth).

I'm sure there are more people on Geotech that can tell you more about this phenomenon.

The influence of the earths magnetic field, on a IB - metal detector in connection
with mineralized ground is also of great importance for the detection depth.

But you should see this as a gift from Nupi.
You have not only a good PP but a compass to.

regards nupi.

Hello Nupi,

Yessssss ... You get one compass AND inclination meter with every Nupi PP absolutely free

Thank you for your feedback. I remember the tv colors being funny for a while when we moved continents.
That was an old style CRT one. An interesting topic that has me excited somehow. Here's a nice map:



I have built a quick & dirty Nupi PP housing for real field testing, here pic:



I used it on a rocky beach with clay and some sand leftovers to go into holes and cracks.
I did have to adjust often dependent upon ground matrix and direction pointed. It was in
use for around 7 hours. Yes, my muscles were hurting after this day ...

The luxury of being able to detect deep with the pinpointer far outweighs the extra work of re-adjusting for me.
It became a reflex after a few hours. In the terrain I was in, even a 6x4 inch coil seems HUGE and hard to use.

So I am really happy with it and am now constructing proper housings for the coil and electronics.

I have also been playing around with the components. I changed the 2k2 resistor to 1k and then 500 Ohms.
I found that power consumption goes up by about 50% and I can reduce the adjustment resistor considerably.
My question here is: is the 2k2 chosen for a reason? Is this important?

My next experiment was finely adjusting at the top of the pyramid in your drawing. I get a very high tone, I think
it is the ~16kHz tone. They reaction to metal is that the pinpointer gets musical and plays different frequencies
in steps as the metal gets closer. That was fun. How can this be with just a binary counter connected?

Last, but not least, I connected a vibration motor to the circuit. The motor only turns 1/2 revolution per beep
so I could not feel this until the beeping is very fast. I tried to find a solution on the internet
and it seems like I would need PWM for this. Do you know of a simpler solution?

Thank you for this wonderfull gift AND the free compass

With kind regards, Polymer

[Nupi]

Hi, Polymer,
It's nice to hear that you enjoy it.

The 2k2 resistor, I have chosen as a stable potential co-operation point of the transistor and the power consumption. It is a compromise as much in this life.
But if you find a better setting you should do it.

An oscillator is more complicated than an amplifier. R1 and R2 are the main set-point for the transistor, but also the coil has a important thing of his high-Q - vactor.
Also the preparation of the components, the type and brand of the components sometimes plays an important thing.
With so many complex data I just try it out.

My opinion is that you more learn with experimenting than a lot of formulas all trying to figure out, and it's more fun.

Oh, I forgot that you get at the Nupi pp for free a E-Trac (sound)
I'm not sure but I think the point of the oscillation of the IC 4024

No, PWM you dont need that.
The problem with the motor can have several causes.
It could be that you use the motor for a high voltage. An motor of 3-5 volts should be good.

The voltage at the base of the final transistor can be too low.

Show mee a photo if you've made the PP.

success,

regards nupi

[Polymer]

Hello Nupi,
Thank You again for your reply!

I do not know how an etrac sounds
But it must sound good then, or not !?

The vibration motors I have are for 1.5-3.0 volts.
They draw quite a bit of power 70-80mA when running.

It runs well when the beeping is very fast, but as I have said
it cannot give any vibration for single beeps when beeping is slower,
the motor only turns 1/2 - 1 revolution per beep. I think the beeps are to short.

I have read something about an overdrive mode for these motors and might try that.
I would love to have a very haptic PP where I can feel every beep to know the distance.

I have made a new experience making two new circuits for two final PP's.
The circuits work fine but there is something which really had me puzzled
and I changed all components and put in decoupling caps to see what it was.

It did not help. May it be the geometry of my new PCB's ??? The components
are the same as in the ones that sound great from the beginning.

Problem: when beeping it sounded not as good as the other circuits I built.

When touching the insulated + wire to the beeper-speaker the sound was
nice and harmonic again. When touching the insulated minus wire to the
beeper-speaker the sound gets really horrible and scratchy.

The solution I found was simple, but I do not understand it
It is just a small capacitor (1n8 ) between the +- beeper-speaker connection.

I will post photos, yes. The housings are ready and I am waiting for the 1k multiturn potis and 9v
battery connectors to arrive to complete them.

Have a great week and looking forward to hearing from you again,

Best Regards, Polymer

[Nupi]

Hi Polymer,

I do not know how the engine of your PP is running but it should be like on this video. Nupi PP, made by Nezocas.

https://youtu.be/OvG9h2lsELU

http://youtu.be/b8D2bIoldLc

"The solution I found was simple, but I do not understand it
It is just a small capacitor (1n8 ) between the +- beeper-speaker connection".

Yes, sometimes there are strange things with electricity.
At low frequencies, interference suppression should be used often larger values capacitors, at high frequencies, interference should be used often low values capacitors.
My experience is that the arrangements of the components are very important for the proper functioning of the electronics.
All though Nupi PP is flexible by its small number and type of components.
But with oscillators is feedback through the Power lines or elsewhere mostly critical.
But that makes it more exciting.

regards,
nupi



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jealousy is toxic poison to your soul.

[eagle52]

Carl is right TRX hits the very fine chains very hard
And my properly adjusted Deus can detect very fine chain at almost 4" -chain is 2.67 Gr 18 " long

[Polymer]

Hi Polymer,

I do not know how the engine of your PP is running but it should be like on this video. Nupi PP, made by Nezocas.

https://youtu.be/OvG9h2lsELU

http://youtu.be/b8D2bIoldLc

"The solution I found was simple, but I do not understand it
It is just a small capacitor (1n8 ) between the +- beeper-speaker connection".

Yes, sometimes there are strange things with electricity.
At low frequencies, interference suppression should be used often larger values capacitors, at high frequencies, interference should be used often low values capacitors.
My experience is that the arrangements of the components are very important for the proper functioning of the electronics.
All though Nupi PP is flexible by its small number and type of components.
But with oscillators is feedback through the Power lines or elsewhere mostly critical.
But that makes it more exciting.

regards,
nupi

Thank You for your reply, I did look at the videos a while back.
My vibration motors do the same as in the film.
It is not enough vibration to be really felt for me when slow beeping.
It doesn't matter though, I am very happy with sound and light.

I have now completed two Nupi pinpointers, one with three ferrites and a thin one.
Here are some pictures. I have not put much effort into "professional look", I made
them solid and switchable sound/light or both. The probe tips are made of polyamide.

The pinpointer at the top of the pic is my experimental one for field testing to see
if it is good for my needs. Hell yes it is! That's why I now made two proper ones.




Yes, the geometry of the electronics in the NUPI PP are important and surprising!

What a lot of fun, frustration and learning with this project

Thank You NUPI!

Best Wishes, Polymer

[Nupi]

Hi Polymer,

I'm happy for you that in the end have overcome all the frustrations and have created some nice good working PP.
I am sure that this also comes through your perseverance.
The probe tips of polyamide are very professional, very nice.
I liked to have communicated with you and wish you the very best.

Nupi

[Polymer]

Hi Polymer,

I'm happy for you that in the end have overcome all the frustrations and have created some nice good working PP.
I am sure that this also comes through your perseverance.
The probe tips of polyamide are very professional, very nice.
I liked to have communicated with you and wish you the very best.

Nupi

Hello Nupi,

Thank you! I will see how long the polyamide will last. It is tough, BUT nylon
is one of the plastics that absorbs the most moisture. Like 50 to 100 times more than
say PP or PE.

I will write here about how well they are going in a year or so. I am using them
in a damp climate by the sea but not in the water.

Have a nice day, Polymer

[ionut_mtb]

hello, nice pinpointer, i've made it. davor did you build the automatic pinpointer?