ELYAPIMI PLL DEDECTOR

[smity]

Please tell me the data on concentric sensor. Diameter 22 cm transmitter. Can I use a wire diameter of 0.45 mm. and 0.23 mm.? Thank you.

[Davor]

Well, I'd say that PLLs are all the same, but that wouldn't be true. Point is that we are gradually losing many of the traditional chips so you better learn how to become friends with those that are likely to stay around. 4046 is among those.

[porkluvr]

Hello, Davor.

Thank you for the CD4046 model. I'll see what I can do with it. Maybe your definition of 'user friendly' will work for me.

In another life I spent some time repairing PLL frequency synthesizers for AT&T, but I never touched any CD4046. And since I never finished college, well... I've never played with the CD4046 before.

I'm working up a version of this Elyapimi detector in Eagle. My CD4046 symbol is drawn to show all the little subsections and their interconnections. That makes it a little 'busy' looking but helps me get a grip on what's there.

[porkluvr]

SCS appears to be paying attention.

Take a look at the DIP file and follow the outputs from each CD4007 pins 2/9. Sure enough, there is a 39k resistor in series before arriving at each of the three NE553x opamps' - inputs.

That makes sense when you consider that there is also a 39k resistor in each of the + input legs.

I'm thinking it deserves a closer look because it is almost an ordinary differential circuit but with some differences.

edit: I have re-uploaded and re-named the DIP file that was contained in yepyeni2.rar because the old rar file gave no indication of what it contained. (I hate that and it happens ALL the time. Everybody does it.)

DipTrace opens the file with some extraneous editor windows. If you close them out (through VIEW>TOOLBARS) you will have a wider viewing area. I know nothing else about DipTrace so don't ask me any advice. Of course you'll need to have some version of Diptrace loaded on your machine before you can open the dip file. The free version works OK.

[galaksi]

This schematic work ???This is new ""Tarsos ""???

All R=39 K

[scs]

This schematic work ???This is new ""Tarsos ""???

[scs]

Work This us new Tarsos

[Davor]

Nice contribution.

I wish I could supply a user friendly CD4046 model so that we could easily model this particular detector project from top-to-bottom, but as of now I don't know that I have one.

You'll find one here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...773#post163773
It even obeys Vcc as it should.

[porkluvr]

CD4007 LTspice model (SPDT analog switch)

Here is a LTspice symbol/model I designed which conforms (as best I know how) to the CD4007 configuration used here.
The CD4007 is wired as a SPDT analog switch. There are three other possible wiring combinations that I know of, to implement a SPDT switch. But I'm trying to keep this simple.

I was meticulous to try and make sure that I didn't make the mistake of reversing the sense because wiring the io1 and io0 backwards would be a bad mistake, but I can't make any promise. Use at your own risk.

The model/symbol should be equivalent to a CD4007 with external connections as follows:
(1,5,12) (8,10,13) (3,6) (2,9) (4,11), power connections are on 7 and 14.

I am not a spice guru and developing the model was a real exercise for me, but anybody with half a brain (and LTspice) could easily edit the appearance should you not like my artwork.

I wish I could supply a user friendly CD4046 model so that we could easily model this particular detector project from top-to-bottom, but as of now I don't know that I have one. I'll need to look through my files and make some tests when I find the time. Maybe I'll find something.

LTspice is a free download in case you didn't already know. It has its shortcomings but it is free.

[dekoratör]

ok. thanks..

[ivconic]

ivconic can i make your pcb?

Of course you can.
Read back what Porkluvr and others discovered and leave place for two 39k resistor that are missing from my pcb.
Maybe they are right, maybe not; i can't tell yet.

[dekoratör]

ivconic can i make your pcb?

[ivconic]

I tried, got somewhat better tone discrimination... but loose depths!
I guess i will have to make coil...

[ivconic]

Obviously coil is fully resonant.
I did some calculations and it seems so.
Now... because i am too lazy to make such coil; i was thinking to try to correct values at detector and meet Tesoro coil specs.
In theory this is easy job... but in practice i am expecting troubles because of the coil balance differences.
Anyway; it would be interesting least to try and see what will turn out of this.
At the end, if i must; i will make suggested coil.
Taking that Tesoro coil has 1mH and 15 mH; using calcs i got 4.9nF (2n7+2n2) as closest for RXc and 73.6nF (68n+5.6n) as closest for TXc.
In this case TXf would be 18.55xxx kHz and RXf than 18.564xxx kHz.
Sweet.
But than i have to face balance and resistances...
...
Anyway; it is worth to play and maybe it will turn educational too!

[pnp007]

Thanks for the lowdown, Mustafa.

I'll quit worrying about needing a better schematic and try to work with what is already here.
It is humbling to read about how somebody can put something like this together in such a fashion, by "doing more with less".

----------------------------------------

pnp007, look at post 38.

edit: guestimation: when you measure inductance look for about 500uH transmit and 1mH receive, maybe slightly more for both of those.
I had to use some questionable methodology to arrive at those numbers so if somebody wants to jump in with more accurate values that would be grand!

10q very much.