Jeohunter - Visual Ground Scanner

[Funfinder]

Hi meaw229a

and thx for your interest, congratulations that you directly hit the spot of one of the best metal detectors
in the area of real deep and cavity detection.

Well, I wrote at (09-22-2012) #592:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?16374-Jeohunter-Visual-Ground-Scanner&p=157853#post157853

If you are lucky the cavity
is not that deep but just 3-4m - in that case the Jeohunter with 1m coil may find it -
but because of the problematically terrain this would need much experience first you
don't have already. It also depends how homogenous the mineralization there is.

> Does that mean that
the jeohunter goes only 3 - 4 meters deep instead of the 10 - 12 meter the manufacturer says for the
deep coil?

Theoretically the maximum distance is the same either for metal or for cavity,
so thats why under very good and almost "laboratory" conditions you really may get such results.

But not if you are new to the Jeohunter and at very steep and stony terrain - and that was the situation of Marius.

As example I made a test and I could detect a steel-bunker door (1x2m size) in air from around
3meter50 and a alu-case (30x40cm) at 2m in air at high sensitivity- both with medium coil 35x45cm.

But metal or cavity in soil is a different situation, the contrast factor and the
disturbing stuff like mineralization and changing coil-ground distance blurrs the contrast
so a more explicit signal-strenght or quality is needed.
Especially as a beginner or at a very large site this is a not easy task to get directly
the best depth out of the detector, even if it would be possible to get it out.

> Ok I'm not after cavity and only after metal in the range of 10 - 12 meter. Not much (or no) disturbing stuff around.

This maximum given depth info is for really huge objects - a flat buried garage door 3x3m in size and upwards.
It also includes the ionic-volume-enlargement of objects if they are for a very long time buried in the ground and
the surrounding soil already is "metalized" (and therefore improving the overall detection), too.


So 10-12m is a very hard limit - you may be able to get that deep with alot experience and patience
and depending what kind of finds or if there are many finds close together and the soil is just light
mineralic and the area of the buried stuff (the mineralization complex there) is different compared
to the rest of the site.
Usually for such a depht and given that the finds are at least over 2m in size you would
need a detector where the coils are at least 3 meters away from each other.
And even that just would work if mineralization is not too strong.

For such a depth you need an excavator vehicle anyway so you may first get that
and start some test digging, hole with 5m depth and 5m diameter each 20meter at
the site and then you could use the Jeohunter with 1m coil to investigate them.




btw. forget Pulse Induction Detectors with 2m coils in such a case,
the impedance of the coils is far too low and they can't detect cavity.

The Jeohunters 1m Coil almost weights 8kg and is filled with powerful windings compared
to those most of the time homebrew looking plumber-pipe 2meter PI coil stuff with some lose
wires in the middle.



meaw229a, its great that you are a treasure hunter that looks for 10-12m deep finds,
and its cool you have found this forum for good information, but such a depth is
already extremly hard at the border for completly all available detectors -
well, you may invest in a cesium-magnetometer which is used to detect
very old ship-wrecks, but if the metal has just a low magnetical interaction even
such an expensive device won't lead to any success.

The Jeohunter if used correctly, slowly, with delicacy of feeling and at high sensitivity
is absolutly a great deep seeker, but this first needs enough experience and for such
special depths it also needs luck concerning the ground etc. situation.
It depends on your personal knowledge as a treasure-hunter, too.


It could work on a site with alot low mineralic desert sand, turf or
rocks, it may work through formations of sandstone etc. if the ground
is very plain but the metal object has to be extremly large in such a case
and I doubt this will be.


But if you can narrow the treasure-location and erode enough ground
with an excavator etc. you would be able to detect it with the Jeohunter and 1m coil.
This depends on the size of the treasure and at what place it is to find.
Good luck!

[meaw229a]

Hi Funfinder,

I first like to thank you for all the information you put on this site about the jeohunter.

In your message to Marius you say 3 - 4 meter is the maximum for the cavity. Does that mean that
the jeohunter goes only 3 - 4 meters deep instead of the 10 - 12 meter the manufacturer says for the
deep coil?
Ok I'm not after cavity and only after metal in the range of 10 - 12 meter. Not much (or no) disturbing stuff around.
Do you think the jeohunter is good to see metal, no matter witch one, in 10 - 12 meter w/o disturbing stuff around?

As said thanks for all the info you put in here. Hope to hear from you.

Thanks

[Funfinder]

@ Orbit
The Jeohunter uses a powerful, high sensitivity and electro-smog-immune non-motion induction-balance circuit that also works great with the huge 1m coil.


@ Hi tabarki
You are lucky, I saw your new reply today and I have time at the moment so I can answer your questions very fast here.
You're welcome for your thankful greetings!


The exact gold notch filtering is complicated or in other words the range of gold is variying alot.

The Jeohunters gold detection wants to be on the safe side so you don't miss any metal-object that still could be within the detection-area of gold.
There are really huge differences - per instance very small gold-chains made of cheap alloy have the same metal-recognition value as iron.
And large steel objects, especially if those are sphere-shaped, can even get the detection value of silver.

It is not possible to adjust a metal-detector to 100% gold. Even if the find is made out of pure gold - if the size is different than the used object for adjustment or if depth or ground-mineralization changes it would be out of range and no longer showing up as gold.

If you own some objects made out of gold like rings, pendants, coins etc. I suggest you put the Jeohunter and the coil at a nonmetalic place and make some in-air test with them. Also use silver objects so you can compare how different the results are.

The most important thing is that you will get experience very fast for what are real detection signals (first use lower sensitivity and doublecheck the signals) and that you will learn to search large sites within the shortest possible time. The Jeohunter has 3 different coils so you even can use the small one for little stuff but this detector is built for maximum depth and for scanning huge areas in no time. If you have learned this and if ya know already an area where treasures might be located you can search through areas of 100 x 100 meters in 1-3 hours, depending how many trash objects there are scattered, too.

Keep in mind for later that you will get the most depth if you are hunting in all-metal mode.

But for now at the beginning you will get the best success-experiences if you are hunting in discrimination mode (iron-off) at ca. 70% sensitivity and if you are moving the coil in a short time over a largest as possible area, perhaps at 5-10cm above the ground. And its better you do this already at a promising treasure site because that way you can check out directly if there are finds that you wanna find.
Sometimes true treasurehunting also needs to remove alot trash and junk first until you are able to detect the good stuff below.
Infact at some places the good stuff is covered by 90% trashy objects. For training a site without such stuff is better because it will be more motivating.

It is also important that you learn to change and search with both arms because this will highly raise your durance and physical energy level.
You may start with the more lightweight small coil but the medium coil for shure needs some time to get used to the weight and enough musclepower.
However this is no big problem because if you have the needed experience the most of the time it will take just 1-3 minutes of sweeping the coil until you will have discovered the next find and can "rest" while digging the stuff out of the ground.

Also please don't wear shoes that contains steelcaps because the Jeohunter is sensitive to detect them even if those are 40cm horizontally away from the coil and also a good idea is to get a shovel where only the digging part is made out of metal (and the rest wood or plastic).

It is also important that you will equip yourself with a good pinpointer if you are hunting with the Jeohunter and the medium coil.
That way you can identify much faster the exact location or even the depth of the find. This really can save you alot time.

Well then, please keep me informed how you are progressing, what you also need to know and good luck with your first - hopefully treasure! - finds.

And again my congratulations to you that you bought this detector because only a very few persons find their way to this really powerful MD!
Too many treasurhunters are "captured" by little 25cm coil detectors that are lightweight and simple to use but totally fail on high mineralized ground
or if electro-smog sources are nearby and of course they will be never able to detect the real deep stuff or cavity and meteorites.

I'm just hoping that you are hunting at a real good treasure-location so the Jeohunter can show it's full performance there. Good Luck!

[tabarki]

Dear Funfinder,

Dear Funfinder,
many thanks for your quick reply, is it normal that the jeohunter detectes steel as gold?
i manipulated the jeohunter as per the instructions but still having a big confusion since even in detecting building metallic structure i have GOLD after scanning
your help is needed all the videos and user manuels were not helpfull
your soonest reply is highly appreciated
Bechir

Hi Bechir

Congratulations to your new detector, at the really interesting sites you can find the deepest and most hidden treasures with it,
but this is a professional and very sensitive tool (the device is built tough, but the signals are sensitive) and you may need some experience first.

Please ask your questions here in this forum because this is very important for overall understanding and for other Jeohunter users.
btw. this thread already contains almost every answer to every possible question you may have.

In principle the best working progress is like with any detector:
First start with in air tests, low sensitivity and all-metal mode and work your way forward getting more and more used to the signals
until you can distinguish even the faintest good signals from bad ones.

This world is huge and I know it from my own experience since a long time - without a huge detector and coil, treasurehunters never will come
even close to the largest amount of the hidden stuff!

There even exists some ideas to create a very lightweight, 2 feet (65cm) long hand-heldable Jeohunter coil for even faster and yet deeper recovery!
With such a coil a person really can handle large sites, battlegrounds, deserts, lost cities, stone-temples, tombs and much more that contains the precious stuff.

Good luck!

[Orbit]

I'm sorry I have not read all Do the this device pi or vlf Balancing inductive detector ?

[Funfinder]

Hi Bechir

Congratulations to your new detector, at the really interesting sites you can find the deepest and most hidden treasures with it,
but this is a professional and very sensitive tool (the device is built tough, but the signals are sensitive) and you may need some experience first.

Please ask your questions here in this forum because this is very important for overall understanding and for other Jeohunter users.
btw. this thread already contains almost every answer to every possible question you may have.

In principle the best working progress is like with any detector:
First start with in air tests, low sensitivity and all-metal mode and work your way forward getting more and more used to the signals
until you can distinguish even the faintest good signals from bad ones.

This world is huge and I know it from my own experience since a long time - without a huge detector and coil, treasurehunters never will come
even close to the largest amount of the hidden stuff!

There even exists some ideas to create a very lightweight, 2 feet (65cm) long hand-heldable Jeohunter coil for even faster and yet deeper recovery!
With such a coil a person really can handle large sites, battlegrounds, deserts, lost cities, stone-temples, tombs and much more that contains the precious stuff.

Good luck!

[tabarki]

Dear Funfinder,
i just got the Jeohunter 3d, i think i am having some trouble using it, would you please give me some advise? my e-mail is [email protected]
Many thanks
Bechir

[Funfinder]

Hi Marius,

Sorry you have problems with the Jeohunter but infact this is an extremly powerful
metaldetector and the best deep-seeking versatile MD in this world and so I hope
I'll get you started somehow.

This detector is a non-motion detector that makes it about 25% more sensitive
compared to motion detectors with same coil size and it is totally immune against
all kind of electro-smog, but it is not that easy to handle in the beginning or
at rough, steep, stony, bushy or highmineralic sites.

But this detector is high valuable to scan huge areas of flat land, especially if using
the 1m coil or the whirlwind-search method and to find the precious deep targets that
the usual 20-35cm coil detectors never will find!

This detector has been tested already for 3 years by me and other serious treasurehunters
and it was proved as a great special task detector! Of course not for beginners or
gold-nugget hunters, but for the very deep and special finds.


About your questions:
For me it seems your coil (which one are you using?) is damaged or one of the cables or
contacts is broken. Usually you will never get a coil error warning after just 5 minutes.

For groundbalancing you have to understand the principle behind.
The reason for ground elimination is to compensate the electromagnetical field the
mineralic etc. elements inside of the soil creates.
Because high mineralic ground can mask the metal targets.

But this is a nonmotion detector therefore the ground-balance only works within
a limited range of distance coil to the ground-setting. The higher mineralized the ground
and the larger the coil the more carefully the coil-ground distance has to be coordinated
or the more slow the coil must be moved if its distance is very close to the ground
and if the detectors sensitivity is set to very high.

But this is the only way to get the most possible depth out of a detector at all.

Most of the common detectors are comfortable to use (lightweight, small coils,
motion circuit incl. automatic ground balance, low power consumption etc.) but
at the cost of depth and vulnerability by electromagnetical interference that can
make alot detectors totally unusable under certain circumstances.

This is the whole "controversy" about this detector and persons that are used
to the "simple" stuff can't or won't understand especially if the needs of them
are fully satisfied by the "usual" detectors.

One simple example:
The XP Deus with its small 20cm coil will be great for goldnuggets or coins at
at a very small well known limited area (10 x 10 meters = 100 square meter)
but not on a battlefield that has a size of 500 x 500 meters or at a desert
with old ruins or sunken buildings deep into the sand. For such tasks you
need detectors like the Jeohunter otherwise it will take ten times or longer
the amount of time incl. all the additional expense that could come in play.


I don't know if you're still here and reading, Marius, because I was one week
off so I couldn't answer earlier, but if so I suggest first you will make some
tests at home or in your garage or garden so we can be shure the coil is
undamaged and everything works at usual:

Put the detector on a wooden table incl. the coil, switch it on, set the
ground balance to zero and the sensitivity to 70% and then test how
stable the detector remains if you do nothing and next try to check out
from what distance the coil will detect metal objects or "cavity objects"
like mineralic stones, bricks or hotrocks.

After you have tested this and because this text now already is quite
long I may answer the special points of your 10 questions the next time
if we have more information.

If you don't wanna lose any time and the coil error persists you better
check out your dealer to exchange the coil with a flawless working one.

Good luck.

[Marius]

Hello again after some silence - I finally received my JeoHunter and... it was a big disappointment. Device is very unstable and is not able to locate almost anything at all. Especially cavities. Based on 2 days of field tests I wrote down the 10 following questions, which indicate the problems I encountered with the device, and if any of you can help me to find solutions to these, I will be very grateful. I suspect there might be something wrong with the device, but it could also be that I just need to get used to it. But really - ground balancing the machine about every 5 meters even in the woods is a bit too much.

The main questions for me are:

1. When doing the ground balancing, I hold the search coil steady at 45 cm, however, ground balancing indicator at the right of the screen keeps jumping up and down above in same location – is it normal? Shouldn’t it be either + or - steadily?
2. Sometimes ground balancing cannot be done at all: I balance it to +201, which is maximum, however, it still indicates that the ground balancing value should be raised – why is it this way and how can it be fixed?
3. When I change the ground balancing values in another location from +201 to +50, there is no difference in indication of ground balancing on the screen – the device does not show that the ground balancing value should be changed – is it sign of malfunctioning if it accepts such a wide range of balancing values without noticing the difference and alerting of it?;
4. When I find a place where the device can be ground balanced, and I start exploring, device malfunctions again – we go forward (we hold the coil from two sides), it detects the metal target well, then we walk backwards and it detects again, however, when we return to the starting point along the same trajectory (with the only difference that we are walking backwards), the oscillograph is not at 0 any more as it was initially, when we balanced the machine there, but can be around the upper dotted line (+50%), where it stays and keeps beeping even when we stop at the starting point for longer time. When wethen repeat the trajectory and return to the same point, the oscillograph finishes around some other value. When the path is repeated, it stops at a different level again, and it stays and beeps there while we are not moving, etc. – is it normal and what is the cause of it?
5. Even when ideally ground balanced, oscillograph keeps fluctuating around zero when we are walking – is it due to mineralisation of soil, which is varying to some minimal extent basically every mm, or it is the failure of the machine?
6. Most of the time, even on local football stadium with no pipes or metal underneath, the device indicates valuable metals – 50%+, is it normal and where does it come from?
7. Device absolutely does not detect cavities – even when we walk over the sewage pipes, which are rather big (about 1 m in diameter) and located near the surface (about 1-1,5 m deep), the device does not show anything – what could be the reason for it?
8. Oscillograph stops and starts drawing the line randomly – when we walk, the line stops from time to time, and when we stand, it keeps running and beeping around some value – what is the reason for that? Should the device detect movement and produce oscillograph line and beep only when moved, or it does this randomly, sometimes when moved and sometimes when standing still? What does it depend on? Sometimes it just stops at some random value, not around or even close to 0 and remains there for 10 meters.
9. Oscillograph changes its values when kept steady at the same point – not much, but still a bit, is it also normal?
10. The device gives the message on blue screen: “Search coil failure detected. Restart the device.” about every 5 minutes, however, when the search coil is reconnected, the message is not repeated any more – is it normal as well and what does it mean or what is it caused by?

I packed the coil in a huge plastic bag for easier cleaning, maybe it is disturbing the device?

Or is the temperature too low - around 0 degrees Celsius? What is the minimum temperature it should be used at?

Right now I cannot say I am very delighted with the device - it is also extremely uncomfortable to use since the keys are not illuminated and the bag keeps closing the screen, but these are minor issues. If it is possible to get this thing work, it would be great. Otherwise it is just an empty investment.

This is my experience. Can anyone comment on that? Thanks in advance!

[Funfinder]

Did they ask you to become a reseller *huh huh*
Well, I have nothing to do with it but thanx for the russian info.

The Jeohunter especially with its 1m coil is for special tasks
and alot people aprpreciate this.

This is not one of those 100s allmost all the same usual
MDs or all that almost the same "good" working homebrew stuff.

[kt315]

JEOHUJ-SPAM. Leave me OFF, idiots! Forget my addresses! such'i deti, kak vy dostali vseh svoim obmanom i debilizmom!

[Funfinder]

Hi Marius,

nice coincidence, I also was at region without internet for a couple of days.

Well - Nokta and Makro Detector are really competitors who wanna overtrump themselves -
but the info you got has nothing to do with industrial secrets - it is just a question of
electromagnetical limits by coilsize, contrast-factor and usage-complexity.

A detector with to high requirements to the enduser concerning weight and
technical knowledge is not that easy to sell as those "switch on and find treasures"-MDs.
Nokta formerly also produced those very deep detectors but now has switched to the
more common know stuff - personally I think that was a step into the wrong direction
because there are 100s of MDs with almost the same features, depths etc.


I'm sorry Marius but so far I have no idea what would be the best method to detect
this very deep cavity at all. It depends how many thousands of bucks you wanna
spent and which technic you prefer.

Perhaps you can find an exploration-team to hire for 1 day that already comes with
the needed equipment. You may use infrared-temperature-detection methods to
find the warm or cold air coming out of the cavity. You may find a geologist that
can analyze the structure of the rock-formation there. If you are lucky the cavity
is not that deep but just 3-4m - in that case the Jeohunter with 1m coil may find it -
but because of the problematically terrain this would need much experience first you
don't have already. It also depends how homogenous the mineralization there is.

You even may find one of those "talented" dowsing-walkers that can "feel" the
cave by his special abilities - but I wouldn't invest much hope into that option.

At the very first you have to be absolutly shure that there is this cavity and it
really contains those treasures. Otherwise all your efforts would be just a huge
waste of time, money and energy.

It really is a big question of how much money is worth to give away to be still
rich from what you may find and get in return. You could rent a special oil-drller
to check out the ground every 50 Meters incl. small camera to look down but
these are very expensive investments.

If it's that deep you need at least a small excavator anyway so if you buy
it you also could make probe-diggings and look out for special signs that may
lead you to the right track. Best thing would be to get old maps or fotografs
with nearer info about the exactly location of the entrance.

If this cave once was open and penetratable by humans there must exist
some clues or visible hints about how that entrance has been blocked.
As example huge blocks of rock or unusual floor signs.

I guess the most important thing for now is to gather as much information
you can get about that special site - trustworthy and reliable information -
no tales or old fancy stories where nobody can prove the truth anylonger.


For finding special detectors you should look for geophysical devices -
like those that are used to find hidden mineral or oil ressources.
There exists some middlepriced (5000-10000 dollars) ground-detectors
like multi coil systems where each coil can be placed 100 meters away
from each other but I'm not shure those will work in your "mountain-site situation".

You can compare this with finding hidden rooms inside the cheops-pyramid
and you may heard how complex, heavy and unsuccessful this task still is.

However, you may find a working solution and I wish you good luck for this.
Real treasure-hunters always need or like big challenges!

[Marius]

Thanks, Funfinder and Dave, for your very useful comments! And sorry for the long silence - I was travelling without internet access.

I inquired Makro about their new products once more and here is what I received in reply:


Makro Detector was founded in 1986 and it's one of the leading manufactures of the "Professional Metal Detectors" in Turkey.

Makro Detector has over 20 years research and development experience in metal detectors development.
So we have been working on the new models but it’s not going to be much more deeper than Jeohunter. They will be mostly hobby detectors and ready in the next year.


To my next e-mail, I received the following reply:


I cannot say anything about the characteristics of the new models.

When it’s ready I’ll let you know.
Probably they thought I am Nokta or some other competitor and did not want to reveal the Big Secret.

By the way, Makro has also a bionic system, which is called Jeotara, it looks even more suspiscious than the one by OKM. But the bionic systems work fine - I am using one bionic machine for health purposes and it always amazes me with its effects, precision and reliability. So I really believe in this technology - supposedly we will see more and more of bionic systems in different areas in the future. The problem with OKM bionic system is that it does not tell the depth or the size of the object, so it can be 5 cm or 10 m, otherwise it is fine.


Regarding cavity or geological abnormal structure detectors - do you have any suggestions, which machines to prefer? I would highly appreciate any information. There are many producers but not so much feedback on how their equipment works.

Thanks in advance!


Marius

[satdaveuk]

Hi Marius and all
The draw back with automatic ground balance is that while searching in iron infested sites the detector starts seeing the iron as the ground which renders the machine to near toy type.
The reason for this is because iron and ground minerals read - numbers that are similar so they can easily get mixed up.
The advantage of manual ground balance speaks for itself because you can adjust as required.
Ideally what you want is manual ground balance with auto trac which is constanly reading the ground and displaying figures on the VDI display so you know if your running optium settings, then you can either manually correct or move to auto but with your ground setting that you personaly have checked, and put into play.

Regards
Dave

[Funfinder]

Hi Marius,

I don't know how good this OKM CaveFinder works
but be careful with OKM, that company is selling also
some kind of Long Range Locators (Bionic ist the name of those)
for very high price (10.000 Euros) that are not scientific tested
or proven working.

There exists also other cavity or geological abnormal structure
detectors - some of those work with long wave radio frequency,
others work like seismographs.


The bumpy 45° terrain would reduce the depth for the Jeohunter, too.

The theoretical distance of 10m is huge metals object only and if
in air or very long ago buried. Cavity has not so much contrast factor
in ground as metal. Cavity could be confused with fluctuating
mineralization, too. The best cavity detection you would get
at a very plain field surface with constant mineralization.

But not on a mountains slope with stones and trees and stuff
where already the distance: surface -> bedrock can vary alot.


I don't know where you have asked for the Jeohunter successor,
but perhaps they didn't knew more about this topic or they can't
tell about it because this is at development stage at the moment.

Do you have asked them if the 1m coil could detect your special
deep cavity location, too or if the new model can?
The new model can only do this if it comes with a much larger
coil than the actual 1m.

The best method would be to find the entrance of this cave.
Like collapsed very old mines you may find some funnels or
craters near or above that location. Take pictures from some
distance and analyze them - you may find it that way, too.


Good Luck!

Oh, by the way: You may find other helpful info here:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11