IGSL

[satdaveuk]

Ah so!
Than sorry, i didn't wanted to dispraise your coil.
I missed the details when you talked on it.
Ok, fine, pay attention on final coil works, to be neat, precise and stiff.
It will work much better.

Yes of course Ivconics you know better than me with your experience, The test coils I wind are hand wound not with the coil winding kit I designed because they dont need to be, just sit by the TV watch your faviorite program and wind tight but not to the point where your having to watch every turn just keep it neat and tidy, ie: dont jumble it to much , but the odd few cross overs here and there are not a problem just keep in mind that its reversable, its not the end all and be all, once you got your inductance just pull it round the lips thats on the form anyway and off you go, its as simple as that.
If your back end is fully functional to spec theres no reason why with what I said in my previous it.... works, not perfectly but will be more than ok and quite good may I add, trust me it works.
I am sure within the next few days someome here will better my Idea, all I can say is bring it on, we are all ears....
Ivconics.. the reason why I sugested the test coil was because I noticed alot of amatures and engineers a like on here doing builds of these two projects have one problem in common, lack of depth/false signals, one or the other or both, which as we both know are often put down to coil build, seen it time and time again in the TGSL forum posts, but after many many hours/days spent on your design here, I am not convinced that everyones problems were down to the coil, alot were, but alot were not, there were so many other factors, I would love to know the amount of the silent crew on here who just gave up due to maybe they feel they couldnt make a coil where infact maybe it was due to underspecification or perhaps duff components.
I mention the easy coil test from personal experience on a fully functioning circuit board that you designed. I personally think that although the coil is the most important thing attached to a metal detector its not the end all and bee all , and if all things after the front end are working correctly you should get some reasonable results in workshop conditions without final field settings of a coil via scope.
You know since my last post I put my test coils just side by side on a table no overlape at home on batterys that are reading 9.2v well knakered, my 7 year daughter waving my old ciggy packet which has foil in it over the coil 2" approx getting a responce loud and clear, so... that says something would you agree?.
The point im trying to make is if your circuit design/build is working correctly you should get these results, if not look further into your build or component specifications before you proceed any further.
You know what they say.... Everyday is a school day haha.

[der_fisherman]

Setting up the DD Coils

Ah so!
Than sorry, i didn't wanted to dispraise your coil.
I missed the details when you talked on it.
Ok, fine, pay attention on final coil works, to be neat, precise and stiff.
It will work much better.

No problem, I am not very sensitive to such comments anyway, so no harm done!! I thought you had maybe not read that my coil was not finished......easily done!!

By the way Ivconic, do you feel that a pickup on the Rx coil of 6 millivolts is good? Too little? Too much? You mentioned sometime ago that it should lie between 4 to 15 if I remember correctly....but you did not give an exact amount for optimum.....

I am setting my coils in Epoxy this evening, all except the overlapping parts......tomorrow I start playing further....

Sunday we have a "Kelterfest" and I am helping.......so no chance to play with the MD......till next week.......wish me luck!!

Bernte's version also looks really good!!! Congratulations Bernte (Bernd?)

Regards

Andy

[ivconic]

Nice and neat work.

[bernte_one]

90%ready

i finished my igsl musketeer board this seconds (my wife is not at home)

only need a coil, my new coil winder is warming up

congratulation fisherman

i hope at saturday i will be the second german who has a running original ivconic detector





hope my wiring is right

[simonbaker]

My IGSL with DIY coils is working, although the search head is far from finished and adjusted. There is some "chatter" but that's probably due to being in my house with a lot of metal and mains voltages around.....also I am using a power supply and not batteries.....

It picks up a thin man's gold ring at about 6", a thin steel screwdriver at about the same distance.

Next step is to finally finish my search head, I will set it for about 6 millivolts pickup.

I think it was my false understanding of the way IGSL works that precluded it "working" before. I found no problems at all....

All the chips I had used and replaced test out fine.

No components were found to be defective.

I have now changed out the filter caps to the correct values of 10µF instead of 4.7µF.

I will post again next week when I have progressed further.

Thanks to all the "helpers".

regards

Andy

PS. Eventually I want to replace the 7808 with something low drop/Low power......but not yet!!

That's great. And don't worry about depth measurements until you get away from your "mains chatter" -- that EMI really cuts depth with TGSL type designs. You would think it should just add noise, but the special "pulse-width filter" just before the audio stage causes choppy signals to be ignored (so it seems).

-SB

[ivconic]

Ah so!
Than sorry, i didn't wanted to dispraise your coil.
I missed the details when you talked on it.
Ok, fine, pay attention on final coil works, to be neat, precise and stiff.
It will work much better.

[satdaveuk]

Beware

Over a perod of time since joining this forum I made 5 pairs of coils for the TGSL project using a new inductance/capacitance meter because my old one I thought was knackered, bought from hong kong on fleebay, what a load of crap between hi and low settings there was at least 1mh and would differ that much between each winding , so in the end bought a manufactures coil to prove for once and all it was the meter at fault.
Beware if any of you consider buying one of these, they come either in a blue case or without case they also sell other items like the signal generator which works fine and good value for money but needs to be boxed.
The main thing that pisses me off is that the company selling them are non technical and portray that they are the manufactures but they are not, so basically your talking to dummys who make out they will help you but me asking for a postage refund to get it back to hong kong which is about £25-£30, then maybe get another duffer back is not worth it so a question of cutting my losses, saying that ive not let it rest its still on going.
Turned out my old meter with new leads was spot on just as Tesro specifaction says.
All my coils are lumed and glued with shield so there good for nothing, all down to faulty LM308s and crap meter, supose thats the game we are in, learned yet another thing not to do.
By the way anyone here who wants to check the electronics out of there MD projects quickly without having to buy a coil or make a fall blown home brew , just get hold of a couple of portable AM Aerials the ones used on the back of stereo midi systems common as muck most Radio TV dealers will have them hanging around from scrap units, just unwind the 10 or so insulated wire turnes and load your own wire for the required inductance, there about 4" dia slightly squat shaped sure you will have seen them about, perfect form for testing purposes, just lay them over each other over lapping some as DD coils, top coil slight twist to the right between 5-10 past 12oclock and bingo fannys your aunt, and your grandads got balls you get old penny out about 5" old iron nail knocked out with disc mid way, thats with no normal setting up procedure.
Its good because you dont wast wire you turn and unturn as many times as you like for different projects its a peace of cake
Its not really any good for real purpose due to the form dosn't allow you to lay them flat on top of each other but its a good testing tip so you firstly you can prove your electronics are working correctly before going any further because often lack of depth, disc and falsing etc is the coil but not always which happened with my tgsl project which gave me little depth and falsing. Note: always buy known branded components from a well known source, at least for your first build because at least after you have your first machine up and going you have something to work from instead of just a circuit diagram, which means you can a chop and change about parts instead of doubting your build quality, which may I add is the norm for malfunctioning projects.

The TGSL I built was made in polysyreen housing, no screening in the box no earth bonding to the controls which were all plastic inclosures, all of which is not recommended on here, all I did was carefully lumed wires, good quality USB cable from socket to PCB, no speaker which is a favorite on here for falsing , And last but not least used the shilding wire as the return on the RX coil as per spec by Tesro, so my black wire is wired to the spare pin on the coil socket so its floating, works fine with my test coil in and outside of my workshop, in my test bed with my disc set faully anticlock wise i detect anything incl silver paper/foil upwards to gold but no iron nails also doesnt pick up pins which is a bit baffling, soon as switched to all metal I get the pin loud and clear at 1.5".
far as gold its better than my Minelab Quattro, but the minelab tops it with silver.
Far as falsing you can do what you want, wave it in the air etc its perfect, so im going to make two lots of DD coil one lot tesro spec and the other Ivconics spec then try silver dogs way if i get instabilty with wet grass then let you all know.
Once I finshed that and sure its the best it can get, then rather than mod it and bugger up the print I shall start from scratch and build the one your doing here which should be alot easer now after building the TGSL and learning how it ticks.
Thanks for your time
Dave

[der_fisherman]

Better search head coils.

Andy you reached the point when you will need to make better coil, cose, seems everything else is just fine at your work.

Thanks for your comments Ivconic, but as I haven't even finished my coil yet (the coils are loose and not yet glued into the plywood shape and nulled. The coils are fully bound and insulated and full of hard super glue), I find it a bit early to say I need a better one.

I was reasonably happy with the test results without any form of null or them being fixed properly....

You will probably be right in the end, but not quite yet..... I will start saving my money.....

What value of "pickup" should I aim for do you think? Is 6 millivolts OK or would you pick another level as being better.

Also could other people with experience of the IGSL/TGSL also chime in with their recommendations/experiences on the value please?

Regards

Andy

[ivconic]

My IGSL with DIY coils is working, although the search head is far from finished and adjusted. There is some "chatter" but that's probably due to being in my house with a lot of metal and mains voltages around.....also I am using a power supply and not batteries.....

It picks up a thin man's gold ring at about 6", a thin steel screwdriver at about the same distance.

Next step is to finally finish my search head, I will set it for about 6 millivolts pickup.

I think it was my false understanding of the way IGSL works that precluded it "working" before. I found no problems at all....

All the chips I had used and replaced test out fine.

No components were found to be defective.

I have now changed out the filter caps to the correct values of 10µF instead of 4.7µF.

I will post again next week when I have progressed further.

Thanks to all the "helpers".

regards

Andy

PS. Eventually I want to replace the 7808 with something low drop/Low power......but not yet!!

Andy you reached the point when you will need to make better coil, cose, seems everything else is just fine at your work.

[der_fisherman]

Another IGSL with DIY Coils is now working!!!

My IGSL with DIY coils is working, although the search head is far from finished and adjusted. There is some "chatter" but that's probably due to being in my house with a lot of metal and mains voltages around.....also I am using a power supply and not batteries.....

It picks up a thin man's gold ring at about 6", a thin steel screwdriver at about the same distance.

Next step is to finally finish my search head, I will set it for about 6 millivolts pickup.

I think it was my false understanding of the way IGSL works that precluded it "working" before. I found no problems at all....

All the chips I had used and replaced test out fine.

No components were found to be defective.

I have now changed out the filter caps to the correct values of 10µF instead of 4.7µF.

I will post again next week when I have progressed further.

Thanks to all the "helpers".

regards

Andy

PS. Eventually I want to replace the 7808 with something low drop/Low power......but not yet!!

[ivconic]

many thanks Ivconic soon as I have time will give it ago, It will be interesting to see the difference, may make a sub board running to a second coil socket and some means of switching the oscillator circuits between the two.
I must say its going to take a bit of beating far as disc and stabilty on the ground, all im hoping to gain is a bit more depth with gold, at the moment with your TGLS connected to a factory Tesro 8" round coil is just over 5" on a ladies thin 9crt dimond ring which isnt bad at all compared to some £500=£600 machines on the market today.
Copper old 1d and old silver sixpence running at 8" measurments taken on top of ground in the garden.
Im a firm beliver that if you can locate the gold and reject the big old iron nail everything else takes care of itself, and thats how do my final tests with home made coils before setting in glue.
Thanks again
Dave

TGSL was designed to work with older Tesoro coils concept. That concept is discontinued long time ago. Newer Tesoro coils are made according to new concept.
I had several original (older) Tesoro detectors on testing and i noticed that those older coils are not performing so good as... for example; our hand made coils here explained on forums.
But now, new Tesoro coils are more look a like Minelab coils for Musketeer with specs.
So.. you can do two things:
either to make you own DIY coil for TGSL, which will definitive outperform original older Tesoro coil,
either to mod a bit your TGSL and use Musketeer coil with it (or newer Tesoro coil with same specs as Musketeer coil, which are 1mH for TX and 15mH for RX also)
Either ways you will achieve good results.

[satdaveuk]

That's easy task now.
Just see how is done at IGSL and "transfer" it to TGSL.
It will work, don't worry.
All you have to do is to change oscillator stage and nothing else.

many thanks Ivconic soon as I have time will give it ago, It will be interesting to see the difference, may make a sub board running to a second coil socket and some means of switching the oscillator circuits between the two.
I must say its going to take a bit of beating far as disc and stabilty on the ground, all im hoping to gain is a bit more depth with gold, at the moment with your TGLS connected to a factory Tesro 8" round coil is just over 5" on a ladies thin 9crt dimond ring which isnt bad at all compared to some £500=£600 machines on the market today.
Copper old 1d and old silver sixpence running at 8" measurments taken on top of ground in the garden.
Im a firm beliver that if you can locate the gold and reject the big old iron nail everything else takes care of itself, and thats how do my final tests with home made coils before setting in glue.
Thanks again
Dave

[ivconic]

I got the slightly iffy "purple" one
I hope to be out with it Sunday, wish me luck !

That's the "USA" model.
Vaquero is nice. I like it.
Just step away from Tejon and Cortes.
I even do believe that those 3 are sharing exactly the same platform, although not sure.
Vaquero is very deep with larger coil.
Very good for smaller coins.
You will be satisfied with it.
Of course; i wish you luck and many nice finds!

[silverdog]

Minelab coil is expensive same as newer Tesoro coils. Not much differences in prices.
People will order pcb's in time. By now most of them are waiting others to finish their detectors and report results. IGSL is not an easy task for majority.
But it is worth of invested money, that's for sure.
...
So you bought Vaquero!
Nice!
I have two friends with Vaquero's, those are very happy with it.
Which one you bought? "Germania" or "USA" ?
We noticed that those two are a bit different in behavior.
...
Now, since you have it, you must obtain coil connector for IGSL , to use Vaquero coil with it.
If you face some problems when using that coil with IGSL - pay attention on RX cap and try to adjust it a bit. Adding or subtracting from 15nF will tune up RX coil to match exactly.
As i recall... it will need a bit less capacitance than 15nF to match exactly the phase. Something between 14nF to 14.7nF.
Use Quiaozhi's calculator, it is accurate.
With TX part you will not have problems at all.

I got the slightly iffy "purple" one
I hope to be out with it Sunday, wish me luck !

[bernte_one]

hello

i´m the one who ordered the musketeer kit
wait until it works and others see i hope the run starts then