blisstool ltc64x v2i

[Qiaozhi]

btw. I could take a picture of the manual if somebody really
needs it, and upload it here, its in english.

The User Manual is available here ->
http://blisstool.com/data/userguides...de-English.pdf

[Qiaozhi]

"Hi there enrique." I second your comments.

If he would answer criticism with logical replies then he would be taken seriously.

I will refrain from replying to Jamin, because he simply continues ranting, except to say, "Thank you for all your endeavours, for we at least appreciate the demo, despite your limitations in being able to properly conduct such tests"....Matt


P.S. If you wish to prove your machine, then do the following:-

Dig the hole to 13 inches.

Place your nails in the hole.

Video yourself setting the disc levels such, that there is no response when sweeping the hole.

Show us the disc settings, and all gain settings.

NOW place coin in situ with nails.

Re-sweep and convince us sceptics.

Please sweep at a rate relative to human usage, and not robots.

I was hoping to learn more about the Blisstool.
But - sadly - it appears my questions have been given the cold shoulder.
I too would like see a video that follows the guidelines in MattR.UK's post above.

[Funfinder]

> I was hoping to learn more about the Blisstool.

OK. What can I do for you? You've got already some info.


thx for the link.

Well, that video is not so clear. Finding a coin inbetween nails
at disc-mode in such depth? Could work, because the ironstuff
creates additional eddy-currents.
And of course without this coin the iron stuff would be disc'd.


The banner at the blisstool page writes about 40cm for a 50cent coin.
Perhaps the improved v3 can do this, but not my v1 model.
I can test how much I get in air incl. electro-smog nearby.

[enrique81]

I too would like see a video that follows the guidelines in MattR.UK's post above.

I'm also curious to see that kind of test.Moreover in Jamin's video i couldn't see how the detector is ground balanced.

[Funfinder]

Have no 50Cent coin at the moment, but 1 Euro was detectable
within close living-room electricity at 27cm at sensitivity = Threshold 5.
at th. 0: 18cm and at th. 3: 22cm
Under good conditions without powerlines you can search at th. 8-9 so you may get this coin at around 33-35 cm
(30cm below the surface at low mineralized soil)

but this test was made with the old LTC 64 model and the new v3 really could reach the 40cm for such a coin!


"Discriminate Depth" has nothing to do with iron and coins mixed at the same ground level, but if those are at different depths.

This is for persons who wanna discriminate very shallow or surface crap stuff but want to find deep iron stuff
because it could be valuable etc.


As example:
If the disc level is at 10 and the disc. depth level is at zero, a small nail is detectable just after ca. 8cm.

If the disc level is at 10 and disc. depth level is at 10 too, this small nail no longer is detectable at all.

Also a big knife no longer is detectable or only by recognisable cutted off signals.

However the limit for complete iron rejection is for around 10x10cm objects size both at disc level and disc depth level 10.

If the iron object is larger you can't fully discriminate it and most MDs have the same problem, as long as they don't use magnetometers. And some 1m coil PIs only can discriminate large metal objects "somehow".


If nails and coins directly are mixed this will create completly uncalculatable results. If those are close to the surface a very small coil would be the best solution. If its buried alltogether very deep and close the conductivity will sum up and the "one, larger target" will appear as mixture alloy of this stuff. Because of this sum up you could recognise it as noble metal if the disc rejects stuff of the lower iron (and perhaps steel) range.



And high mineralized soil can mask even noble metal to appear as iron or close to it's disc-level-range - this depends on the ground balance settings, too.

[holyuser]

Have no 50Cent coin at the moment, but 1 Euro was detectable
within close living-room electricity at 27cm at sensitivity = Threshold 5.
at th. 0: 18cm and at th. 3: 22cm
Under good conditions without powerlines you can search at th. 8-9 so you may get this coin at around 33-35 cm
(30cm below the surface at low mineralized soil)

but this test was made with the old LTC 64 model and the new v3 really could reach the 40cm for such a coin!


"Discriminate Depth" has nothing to do with iron and coins mixed at the same ground level, but if those are at different depths.

This is for persons who wanna discriminate very shallow or surface crap stuff but want to find deep iron stuff
because it could be valuable etc.


As example:
If the disc level is at 10 and the disc. depth level is at zero, a small nail is detectable just after ca. 8cm.

If the disc level is at 10 and disc. depth level is at 10 too, this small nail no longer is detectable at all.

Also a big knife no longer is detectable or only by recognisable cutted off signals.

However the limit for complete iron rejection is for around 10x10cm objects size both at disc level and disc depth level 10.

If the iron object is larger you can't fully discriminate it and most MDs have the same problem, as long as they don't use magnetometers. And some 1m coil PIs only can discriminate large metal objects "somehow".


If nails and coins directly are mixed this will create completly uncalculatable results. If those are close to the surface a very small coil would be the best solution. If its buried alltogether very deep and close the conductivity will sum up and the "one, larger target" will appear as mixture alloy of this stuff. Because of this sum up you could recognise it as noble metal if the disc rejects stuff of the lower iron (and perhaps steel) range.



And high mineralized soil can mask even noble metal to appear as iron or close to it's disc-level-range - this depends on the ground balance settings, too.

Bla-bla-bla...
Everything you wrote makes no sense, because I suspect you're blisstool's dealer, aren't you?

[MattR.UK]

JAMIN...with respect, I quote you the manual.....and sound the 'last post' on this topic.

The instructions below are reproduced from the manual,
and only the lay-out and colouring is added to emphasize the points I originally made,
even BEFOR I was aware of its on-line availability.

So JAMIN, even the designer/author agrees with my opinion of how such a test should be done. Q.E.D.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


To reduce and eliminate the hole effect are apply the following methods:

- search over the hole with a slow and careful swings of the search coil.
-
- If the swings are fast, thehole effect will manifest itself dramatically;


- in advance for specific terrain, the user to dig a hole, to balance the metal detector to it and to
remember these settings. Accordingly, in every hole which he should check, to set of the metal
detector these settings, but after checking the hole, to set of the metal detector the default settings,
through which the metal detector is balanced not to the hole, but to the terrain;
- the user to switch the metal detector to one of the other modes of the DISCRIMINATOR switch.
For example, if he currently search in mode „III“, to switch to mode „II“ or to mode „I“;
- on terrains where the hole effect visible occurs, the user to comply with it, ie after first detected and
centered well the signal, and dug a hole to find the buried metal object, not to verify that the metal is
still in the hole, but to continue to dig until he detect the metal object in the excavated from the hole
soil.
False signal than over a blank hole, can be registered and in greater local heterogeneity (clusters) on
a particular section from the terrain, especially on terrains with a high content of ore and slag, or on
terrains whose soil is mixed with small pieces of mineralized ceramics.
In practice, such false signals, are not a serious problem, especially for experienced searchers
who through his experience, detect relatively easily the difference in the sound, at signal from
real metal object and at false signal due to the excavated hole or heterogeneity (cl

*********************************

Thanks again for the video, for at worst it stimulate ddebate, and demonstrated the publics reluctance to take such demos at thier face value.

I'm sure that most folk were not intending to offer offence specifically, but rather expressing their reluctance to accept abnormal claims, without a more explicite procedural demonstration.

Matt.

P.S.

I would like to comment on the context of the hand-book;-
I think that it was very honestly written, even though it was not too well translated.
If it was written by the designer, then he clearly states the true nature of his machine.
In my opinion, it has no new technological innovations. It is just another individuals attempt to
produce his version of a bog standard Induction Balanced detector.
He scincerely warns of its vulnerabilities along with its needs of fine tuning to achieve best results.
Remember the Latin phrase...Caveat emptor......Let the buyer be aware.

[WM6]

Present test-video is scam trick only. Easy to prove. Funfinder apparently act as well known scammers connected with scam producer - read his promotion of Jeohunter crap and how to how to seduce naive hunters to lost their hard earned money. Now with Blisstool the same story. His air tests are worth nothing especially in case of Blisstool. Do not buy this crap, before proper tests are done.

[Funfinder]

OK, finito!

Think what you want, this is so completly ridicoulous , a bunch of little kids - you won't get any more help or info at this thread from me! Bad luck...

And you WM6 are such a pity for geotech, understanding nothing at all, nothing than a repeating bla bla bla bla bla. Go away and spread your nonsense at the LRL-Forum, where you belong.

[WM6]

nothing than a repeating bla bla bla bla bla.

I don't know why you repeating bla bla bla scam promotion of jeohunter and blisstool nonsense creations now, instead of done proper tests.

Your cannonball test are not proper tests. Those tests are clown tests.

So, done proper test, and stop scam naive hunters here with such virtual "HiTech" crap.

[MattR.UK]

in agreement

I am quite sure that even without a coin in the hole - nails only ,the detector will give a diggable signal.

***************************

Enrique, I am inclined to agree with your comment, especially as one of the nails appeared bent.

At extreme depths, even ferrous targets are prone to mimic non-ferrous targets, and to add miss-shapeness to it only compounds matters......Matt.

[enrique81]

OK, finito!

Think what you want, this is so completly ridicoulous , a bunch of little kids - you won't get any more help or info at this thread from me! Bad luck...

And you WM6 are such a pity for geotech, understanding nothing at all, nothing than a repeating bla bla bla bla bla. Go away and spread your nonsense at the LRL-Forum, where you belong.

Funfinder we are talking about the test,not for the detector itself.Next time someone can show us 3 ft deep penny under the iron plate.So we have to believe him

Btw looks like the "DADDY" has it's own grandpa

http://www.google.bg/search?hl=bg&q=...He6N4gTslJGkCA

[Qiaozhi]

"Discriminate Depth" has nothing to do with iron and coins mixed at the same ground level, but if those are at different depths.

This is for persons who wanna discriminate very shallow or surface crap stuff but want to find deep iron stuff
because it could be valuable etc.

From your description I think "Discriminate Depth" is equivalent to "surface trash elimination" on other detectors.

If nails and coins directly are mixed this will create completly uncalculatable results. If those are close to the surface a very small coil would be the best solution. If its buried alltogether very deep and close the conductivity will sum up and the "one, larger target" will appear as mixture alloy of this stuff. Because of this sum up you could recognise it as noble metal if the disc rejects stuff of the lower iron (and perhaps steel) range.

This is my point concerning the video.

Can you perform an air test using a medium sized iron target? Set the discrimination level so that the target is only just rejected at (say) 4". Then (keeping the target moving) gradually move it further away from the coil. If the Blisstool has the same flaw as the Fisher 126X models, then ferrous items will be accepted as the "depth" is increased, resulting in the digging of unwanted items at great depth.

[enrique81]

***************************

Enrique, I am inclined to agree with your comment, especially as one of the nails appeared bent.

At extreme depths, even ferrous targets are prone to mimic non-ferrous targets, and to add miss-shapeness to it only compounds matters......Matt.

That was my point Matt.Many analog detectors can't disc. deep and rusty irons.

[Funfinder]

@ Qiaozhi

You're right, also for me the LTC64 seems to be an improved Fisher 126x circuit with the same "snap, crackle and pop". I even could use the Fishers coil with the Blisstool and vice verca, of course without correct discrimination with this configuration.

And you can compare the detection signals with HAM (amateur) radio:
A good trained ear ist able to filter out words from a very weak dB signal where somebody else only hears noise.

That's why experienced users are able to detect much deeper stuff with such machines! I prefer the static noise over the crazy electrosmog beeps of as example the Garrett MDs because those signals are no longer "decipherable".


> ferrous items will be accepted as the "depth" is increased

That's right, but only after a special constellation of disc level
and large iron objects as described by me already.


The disc depth regulator is for improved surface iron junk deletion.
The Fisher 126x's don't have this feature but the same problem that
deeper and larger iron objects starts to get very worse to discriminate.

Especially under real search conditions - if the disc is not at 10 but at 3-5.

However the special surface trash elimination is an improvement,
because alot deep under ground iron stuff is old and special.


Btw. I don't know what all of this should have to do with the video.

I haven't read that this video tries to claim something "special".

onuba wrote about "iron rejection" and jamin360 posted the video.
One comments there from blisstool was:

"Hello, yes the iron will be "completely" rejected up to 7.9", past that depth the iron can be heard as broken/blunted/scratched signals. The non-ferrous objects come through crisp and clear with none of the mentioned characteristics. This video is showing that the small sixpence can give a clear signal through the disruptive signal from the iron nails. Hope that helps further videos are coming"

Of course a tight mixed iron with noble metal find will give a better signal as the iron stuff on it's own.

But it would be much more important to bury a single noble metal find at 10 inch and finally cover the ground with some nails.
And now the iron rejection by "disc depth" should do a good job. But very probably the much stronger surface signals will fully mask the real target...

Perhaps I will perform this test and show you the results.