QED

[sinclairuser]

Early version nothing like the latest versions is all I can say see you in three weeks.

Regards, Ian.

and so the flanneling starts up again, let this be an end of it now though.
if nothing is forth coming in say 4 weeks, then close this thread and draw a line in the sand, and it must be with bugs's consent, any attempt to circumvent bugs's patent or design, should be given the same disdain as if it was the tdi or atpro.
its time to show and tell, or put up or shut up, what we want now is the proper design, its been 4 years.
i hope bugs is well, i wish him all the best, i just dont want his work given away by 3rd parties, if he is going to lose out, i'd rather he qed stays as vapourware.

[IBGold]

Early version nothing like the latest versions is all I can say see you in three weeks.

Regards, Ian.

[vbeeeks]

Yeah "Maybe for your own personal curiosity and experimentation...." is okay and private but as you said "If curious experimenters were to try to find out how it works by replicating it....." and some day they announce a "eureka" news-bite that would trigger "the chinese factory / turkish whatever", and subsequently that would propel the frenzy among the members here / elsewhere whether amateur or otherwise. There is already reports coming about its "encouraging results", ethically the under-current to epitomize the authorship of Howard aka Bugwhisker is very lean and that is very agonizing as only some secret compensation will only benefit the author as per the current dispensation of collecting the royalty. The "Open source" spirit is now boops --- shows the greed factor among us other than the corporate clan(s) pursuing the "kill switch". For those in date with PI aka QED Bugwhisker's permission for "GO" will be a welcome release.

[greylourie]

So I presume that QED V2 (with single mcu) has already been tried and tested by few. The f/w core in asm also complies correctly after the fuse bits are set correctly as per translated MD4U site member post. My question is: has the whole episode gone open source? Maybe the support will not be forthcoming as is normally does in the forums. As of now what matters is that the QED is alive and kicking.

I have no clue about the firmware. I have seen reports by people, who have been present on the ground, and had a chance to see its response against their own commercial models (expensive one ). Very encouraging results, would be a mild way to put it. As for going open source, I have not heard anything to confirm that. If it was true, then the whole of Geotech would know within hours of it being done.

To be honest the interest in cloning a 99% similar model somehow seems wrong to me. Especially if full build and construction details were revealed. Because then there is the risk that it would simply be taken up by some chinese factory (or some place like that Turkish forum-come web business that seems to love producing Delta Pulse variants). That would be wrong because Bugwhiskers would not be able to benefit from his own hard work and effort.

But the fact that there is some old information out there is very tempting. If curious experimenters were to try to find out how it works by replicating it..... HDPhilip did it here, on Geotech, using his arduino uno32.

Do you enjoy working on projects and constructing during your spare time ? Because if your answer is yes, the fact is you could take any of the popular P.I projects here and tweak them very nicely.

Theres nothing wrong with taking elements of an old and obsolete design, and building something could be considered a form of flattery and paying homage to origins of the machine and its designer. But something that has never had the chance to be formally released by its designer.......hmmmm . Maybe for your own personal curiosity and experimentation.

[vbeeeks]

So I presume that QED V2 (with single mcu) has already been tried and tested by few. The f/w core in asm also complies correctly after the fuse bits are set correctly as per translated MD4U site member post. My question is: has the whole episode gone open source? Maybe the support will not be forthcoming as is normally does in the forums. As of now what matters is that the QED is alive and kicking.

[greylourie]

I have seen that photo before and think thats older version with lot of features. Later versions are simpler and cheaper to make.

[vbeeeks]

Supposedly QED v2 experimented on MD4u site....

[IBGold]

Here ,here and may I say the testing goes on.

Regards, Ian.

[greylourie]

i know all that mate, i even wasted my time trying to build it before, but since no one will discuss it sensibly, it never gets anywhere.
the original design is now at a stage where only the patent holder can develop it, and if he does a certain company will start interfering again, its a dead duck
all that comes from bumping this subject is a fresh round of the "usuall nonsense", it does not develop or go anywhere, its become tiresome, the other main problem is no one can get hold of one for any real testing, the only ones who could were the very people who should never have got any where near it, people who saw it as a weapon against you know who.
it was never an open source project, if it had been no one no matter how rich and powerfull could have stopped it, it would have gone viral, once the genie was out it could never be put back in.
its time has passed, the moment is lost, time to do something new, hopefully next time the inventor will either,
A: keep quiet about their PUD, and sell it to the first detector company that shows interest.
B: keep quiet about their PUD, and post the complete working project fully open source at the large scale testing stage.
there is no "none of the above" in this instance, this is why PUDS never happen, money and ego allways gets in the way.
carl has said this more than once.

I hear what you are saying. But aside from the patent which has got a certain commercial entity s knickers in a knot, the other element that makes up the QED is the hardware platform. (Two separate and distinct things, yet intimately tied together.)

That a certain company with a prolific and dubious record of patenting anything possible........ With an "highly competent" engineering team backed by the grunt of investors money and their own revenue...... To bully and try to quash the public release of of one mans unique ground-balancing (un-challenged) patent and his simple but fully functional and robust detector hardware platform, on close examination is laughable. Those guys must have their heads buried in the sand. Its all about fear. They are scared witless and embarrassed of the weaknesses their own over engineered electronic attempts, and the potential Bugwhiskers QED has. Just look at the youtube videos of it working on location on well known hot ground.

But back to Bugwhiskers hardware. That hardware platform is the amalgamation of input from a lot of enthusiasts and tinkerers who have asked for rectification of simple points of issue, that are found in many detectors made by numerous manufacturers.
And that so many manufacturers chose to ignore. The biggest single point is the power supply. Look at where it is supplied from, and what it does. There are many points that Bugwhiskers worked on. Looking at the building blocks that make-up the hardware reveals the keys to what all P.I's should be like. Robust and low-noise synchronised power supply, and because the TX takes the grunt out of many power rails and battery supplies and impinges on analogue receive - and related to that..where does that smps get fed from ? Next key block is the critical damping aka the snubber and front end gating, what advantage this gives, (depending on which school of thought you follow) is no avalanche noise into the recieve train. That in turn gives, "more target signal for the people"
And the receive circuitry? Designed with KISS principle (and applying basic common sense as has been offered by the likes of Reg Sniff in so many of his threads here on Geotech regarding improving certain models) low noise and zero offset opamps and also dont forget the nice quiet integrator switch.

Having a micro digitising the signal, and massaging it to send to audio ? Nice feature. BUT ALL THE REAL MAGIC really happens before it goes in the micro.

Imagine applying those three keys/blocks to some of the popular Geotech P.I projects... And Bugs never hid those particular details of his schematics, these elements were there for all to see and absorb. He listened to what users wanted, and put his heart earnestly into trying to give people the platform they wanted.

As for the other and most controversial element... the QED ground balance regime, so desperately needed by people working with detectors in very awkward ground conditions...... well anyone with a micro and experience in using and programming, by looking at the patent diagrams showing drawn to scale timings could plug it into a Hammerhead/Surf P.I or "name-your-fancy" single channel machine. Look at HDPhilip, he did it.

So even without the "help" of someone leaking some stuff on a dot RU website, the schematics and then the patent were out in the open for anyone to interpret. Would take a fair bit of effort and work, but not impossible. But it would not be the same.

It would not be the same as getting it from the man that listened to people....

That its possible to have such a cheap and KISS based detector, that can stomp all over some of the most terrible ground must really stick in some chief/managing engineers craws. I bet they use it as an example to their junior staff of what really is possible with simple hardware.

Just hope no Asian giant looks too closely and starts making facsimiles. Because that would not be fair to Bugwhiskers. He listened to people, and then he went and made it. Either way the anti -competition bully wont win.

For me, not having a chance to use that hardware is the real let-down. The superior ground balancing is just extra icing on the cake.

[sinclairuser]

i know all that mate, i even wasted my time trying to build it before, but since no one will discuss it sensibly, it never gets anywhere.
the original design is now at a stage where only the patent holder can develop it, and if he does a certain company will start interfering again, its a dead duck
all that comes from bumping this subject is a fresh round of the "usuall nonsense", it does not develop or go anywhere, its become tiresome, the other main problem is no one can get hold of one for any real testing, the only ones who could were the very people who should never have got any where near it, people who saw it as a weapon against you know who.
it was never an open source project, if it had been no one no matter how rich and powerfull could have stopped it, it would have gone viral, once the genie was out it could never be put back in.
its time has passed, the moment is lost, time to do something new, hopefully next time the inventor will either,
A: keep quiet about their PUD, and sell it to the first detector company that shows interest.
B: keep quiet about their PUD, and post the complete working project fully open source at the large scale testing stage.
there is no "none of the above" in this instance, this is why PUDS never happen, money and ego allways gets in the way.
carl has said this more than once.

[greylourie]

Hi sinclairuser,

I expect Bugs simply can't be bothered to reply Woody, as there is some history over the failure by him to return a very early prototype to Bugs. From what I have read and gleaned on some forums, Woody basically took the prototype as exchange for materials supplied in the early stages of Bugs work. Reportedly, recompense for materials was offered, but Woody chose, instead, to hold onto the prototype.

A certain manufacturer has used threats, bluff and mumbo-jumbo to stifle release of hardware. It would seem that they are quite alarmed at the potential of Bugs machine. Personally I think the parent holding company should go in and get a few heads rolling over at the offending manufacturer. Their outrageous bullying and stifling of open market competition, has the potential for massive backlash that could have an impact on future company share performance, amongst other things.

QED performance is outstanding. Check out the videos on Bugwhiskers youtube channel. He has made improvements in audio, and simplified some of the front-end elements.

From his early work to make an open source P.I controller, documented here on Geotech... to the development of his world class QED (consisting of frighteningly simple elements) in his "back shed", all adds up to make him an inspiration to all experimenters.

[sinclairuser]

i think the fact that bugs never replied to woody's question says it all, just what is the truth?.

[vbeeeks]

Anybody made the kit-board for QED as shown in MD4U site? Goldrush to QED !!!!!

[Woody.au]

I get the "toy" bit after watching the video. What's with the posting the video of this, as you say "toy" in this thread?

What are you doing making statements like "I think Minelab own the QED now" followed up by "not too sure what happened with it all"

How about you stick to posting facts !

What are the facts? "I think" is not a statement of fact but conveys uncertainty, "I am not sure what happened with it all" is a fact that I do not know what happened.

But I did hear 3rd or 4th hand (and this is only speculation) that the project ended up in the hands of a detector company... not fact but hearsay, What are the facts?

Surely you can enlighten us all.

[bugwhiskers]

I get the "toy" bit after watching the video. What's with the posting the video of this, as you say "toy" in this thread?

What are you doing making statements like "I think Minelab own the QED now" followed up by "not too sure what happened with it all"

How about you stick to posting facts !