Designing and marketing new metal detectors.

[Tinkerer]

hello tinkerer

i read this thread on one run
very interesting discussion and many experience which comes from the true masters here

respect

i litlle tip that come up to my mind some time ago
we live in a world of individualits (everybody thinks he is a special one)
so why not give them their special thinks
i would start a little machine with good performance (pi)
as a basic model which everyone can effort
then you can offer different coatings for electro box and stem
coloured screws etc
and no other change to the basic model

(somethink like west coast choppers)
take somethink basicly and make it special

if you earned some money you can start to let others produce
then the stress you will have with work would crush your detector dream

then you can start a second model and dont forget to glue all your inventions in deep dark black epoxy

regards

So you would vote for a basic "point and click" PI, low price, but sensitive enough to detect a 0.5gram gold nugget or titanium firing pin at 8".
A detector that is rugged enough to survive 200 days of hard work in the field with not more than 10% damage breakdown.

Tinkerer

[dougAEGPF]

What is the point of all this discussion when you will have negotiate the patent minefield and face the real possibility that at least one of the major manufactures will take you on for patent infringement if you decide to commercialize your detector! Unless you have very deep pockets or are backed by a well cashed up company you have NO chance of defending your invention!
dougAEGPF

[sawmill]

Tinkerer

I did some research,and it seems like Carl is a pretty brilliant fellow!
His statements about military mine detectors is what led to my research.

There is already several mine detectors ,that will do just what you described
in your above post to bernte_one ,in regards to small targets at depth,and
extreme conditions. Yeah and they are a nice matte green color too!

A couple of these detectors really show some promise for prospecting,and relics.

[Carl-NC]

What is the point of all this discussion when you will have negotiate the patent minefield and face the real possibility that at least one of the major manufactures will take you on for patent infringement if you decide to commercialize your detector! Unless you have very deep pockets or are backed by a well cashed up company you have NO chance of defending your invention!
dougAEGPF

Avoiding patent infringement is not a very difficult task.

[Tinkerer]

Tinkerer

I did some research,and it seems like Carl is a pretty brilliant fellow!
His statements about military mine detectors is what led to my research.

There is already several mine detectors ,that will do just what you described
in your above post to bernte_one ,in regards to small targets at depth,and
extreme conditions. Yeah and they are a nice matte green color too!

A couple of these detectors really show some promise for prospecting,and relics.

Sawmill, thanks for the feedback. Please give us the links to your information, we all are interested.

What is the cost of the military mine detectors?

Carl, yes, he really knows his business, talked about a NON-MILITARY detector that is capable of detecting mines, at a cost of under US$1000.00.

I downloaded the Infinium manual. It seems to be very close to what we are talking about. Simple, rugged, waterproof.

Do you have any information of how sensitive it is and how deep it goes?

This might be the closest competition. Can we beat it by "head and shoulders"?

It's cost is about 25% above our design goal. How can we reduce the cost and still perform 25% better?

Tinkerer

[WM6]

I downloaded the Infinium manual. It seems to be very close to what we are talking about. Simple, rugged, waterproof.

Do you have any information of how sensitive it is and how deep it goes?

I have Infinium and I tested it (8" coil) on stainless needle (hypodermic needles for single use). It cannot detect it at all, nor in coil touch.

There exist (factory) moded Infinium for military use (demining), I believe it can detect such things as small stainless parts (used in some land-mines too. Regretfully too expensive machine.

[ivconic]

I have Infinium and I tested it (8" coil) on stainless needle (hypodermic needles for single use). It cannot detect it at all, nor in coil touch.

There exist (factory) moded Infinium for military use (demining), I believe it can detect such things as small stainless parts (used in some land-mines too. Regretfully too expensive machine.

I just checked Deus on small needle.
It was not detected at all.
I tried all the factory preset programs.
No detection at all.
Yet this is indeed very small, tiny needle (~2cm long and ~0.4-0.7mm dia).
I think we are expecting too much from detectors.

[WM6]

I just checked Deus on small needle.
It was not detected at all.
I tried all the factory preset programs.
No detection at all.
Yet this is indeed very small, tiny needle (~2cm long and ~0.4-0.7mm dia).
I think we are expecting too much from detectors.

Thank you ivconic, very much.

I think this is interesting field for development public available "de-mining" detector.
School authorities asked for such reasonable priced detector for "de-mining" school and kindergartens yards from such dangerous things as dumped narco-needles.
Such detector have to be small stainless steel parts sensitive and selective to not to dig all trash there.

[ivconic]

"...have to be small stainless steel parts sensitive and selective..."

Well that is, for sure, huge challenge for major md manufacturers, rather than challenge for us hobbyists, i am afraid!
Meaning exactly: tough task!

[WM6]

"...have to be small stainless steel parts sensitive and selective..."

Well that is, for sure, huge challenge for major md manufacturers, rather than challenge for us hobbyists, i am afraid!
Meaning exactly: tough task!

Yes, not an easy task. But I mean selectivity in reasonable way, not absolute - something like two position notch filter or so.

[Tinkerer]

Yes, not an easy task. But I mean selectivity in reasonable way, not absolute - something like two position notch filter or so.

Interesting ideas, but, I think outside the scope.

I think 0.5gram gold, stainless steel and titanium at 20cm depth, are acceptable limits, that would make a detector capable of detecting nuggets, mines and relics.

WM6, could you give us some numbers for the Infinium, how close it gets to this design goal?

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

OK guys ,color problem solved,just leave it primer grey,and include a
can of spray paint of their choice.

I would suggest at least a 14.8 volt 4400 MaH LIon battery pack
to power it too. And like Carl says ,lots of volts to the coil. Also no
open spoke coils for land use.

Do the brush and weeds snag the open coil spokes?

How do you feel about using 2 such batteries in series for 24V TX?

Tinkerer

[sawmill]

Tinkerer

Yes open spokes will grab ,weeds ,brush,and rocks,plus they are
not as durable as a solid coil.

I like the 24 volt idea just fine,as a matter of fact I would rather
have 24 volts.

OK on those needles, a GMT,GM3 Whites,or a Gold Bug 2, will find
them easy. Also a Garrett Recon Pro ,or a Minelab F3 mine detector
would get them too,and at depth. You can buy both mine detectors
as military surplus with the complete kit including chargers pretty cheap.

[Carl-NC]

The stainless hypodermic needle is probably a good test if you want to design a serious minimum-metal mine detector. If you want a consumer-grade WWII mine detector then it's probably way overkill.

I have both a Garrett and a Minelab mine detector. I'm told that the Garrett is a modified Infinium circuit. It came with a s/s firing pin test target embedded in a 5" long stick, and the Garrett just picks it up (in air) at the length of the stick. The TDI falls short by 1/2", so even as a minimum metal mine detector the TDI design is pretty close.

[WM6]

I think 0.5gram gold, stainless steel and titanium at 20cm depth, are acceptable limits, that would make a detector capable of detecting nuggets, mines and relics.

WM6, could you give us some numbers for the Infinium, how close it gets to this design goal?

Infinium do not suit well as tiny nuggets detector.

My 1,1gram testing gold nugget it can detect in air at 8cm (in comparison: AT Gold can detect it at 12cm, the same my Tesoro Diablo II).

1.1gram gold pendant (round, diameter 15mm) it can detect (at twice the distance of 1.1gr nugget) - at 16cm.

At distance of 20cm you mentioned it can detect in air 20gram titanium (6Al-4V) test target (screw).

As I say, stainless hypodermic needle it cannot detect at all.