TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[ivconic]

Vladimir!

Another nice work, done by Vladimir!

[kt315]

Hi kt315,
have you noticed that components are really similar/equals to tesoro Royal Sabre ones..?

Even TIS75!

Kind regards,
Max

hi Max,

yes, I have. I have seen this comment on schematic 'NOTE: SEE TESORO ROYAL SABRE' and I think it is some sign. thanks. but frequencies of the detectors are different.

regards

[porkluvr]

smart? -yes

Max- thanks for posting the PCB and schematic. This thread has taken so many twists and turns that basic things tend to get misplaced.

Dino- I think you should disable the notch circuit. Prioritise getting the main circuit working correctly. The notch circuit is extra complication and can cause headaches.

By simply not connecting one or all of the notch switches should effectively remove the notch. You will then have the basic GSL and can make various changes that Ivconic suggests.

Get the basic circuit working before re-connecting the notch, or you can remove the notch components to save battery power.

[Max]

Nelson, Max already answered correctly on your question about trimmer...

"My problem is that my TGS with TL081, runs fine, but i can not get more than 22
cms for a 1 cms coin on air."
Yes, you came to very important point where you have to take problem of making coils
more seriously.
It is obvious that you are not beginner any more, now is time to go one step further.
First, to be awared of full TGS performances, YOU MUST obtain LM308 and put on TL081 place.
Find 2 of LM308 and replace those TL081...just for a while. You will notice some
differences. You'll detect same coin at 24-25cm than...Next is to start making another
coil. You already have one coil ready and it will serve you as reference to make another-
better... Be sure that LF353 is at front end for now. Do not replace it with other...
Another important thing is 1M resistor...KT315 pointed me to it. After installing it
parallel to diode i gained much better performances...If you didnt previously, now is time
to solder it over 1N4148...look at my last schematic, you have everything there...
Next is to make coil i described last here; 255x137mm;
Wire gauge is 0.25mm (0.28mm with varnish)
For TX - 100w = 21.2ohms = 5.61mH, when constrained it should read 5.99mH
With this coil frequency should be 14.6KHz +/-200Hz
For RX - 105w = 23.4ohms = 6.18mH, when constrained it should read 6.55mH
These are exact datas of coil i made. Coil is working very good. 2cm coin at 36cm distance,
but most imortant is fact, detector is calm and stabile, no false signals at all.
Discrimination is PERFECT.
I dont see why your results are not better? You should pay much of attention on device
itself. Capacitors i used are all pollyprophilene (any syntax error?)...except those
few with picofarards values..
At RX there is 15nF = not changed, also P.P.type..
At TX also original values = not changed, also P.P. type...
All resistors are 1/8w,5%....all original values, no changes at all.
For example, if you cant find 24k than use 2 of 12k in serie, also for 200k use 2 of 100k in
serie...etc.etc.
Diodes are all 1N4148, ZD iz 4V7 (not 4V3)....Fets are J107. Transistors are as noted on sch...
Today i replaced 2N2907 with 2N3906...same, no differences...or maybe (i am sugestive) 2N3906
works even a bit better?? I am not sure, might be subjective...

So, Nelson and others...it is not clear to me why cant you gain better performances...?
Except Max! I think only Max reported very good results also....Anybody else?
Leto is conversant constructor...Hey Leto, what are your results? Come here friend! Help us...
I would like to help you more Nelson! But i really gave here most accurate datas.No more secrets.
Everything i posted is true.
The only reason of average results could be that you missed something in your work? What?
I would like to know also...
Forgot to mention nulling! Again and again; nulling is probably most important step in making
good coil...I done this so many times...again and again.It is not easy to null some coils at all!?
While,at the other hand, some coils turns to be very easy to null!? 80% of my coils i nulled
very easy, but 20% of coils (same data) gave me pretty hard time and a lot of pain to null them?
Why is that so? I guess minor differences from one to another, eventual drifts etc...
Last...i have hunch that if we use thicker wire than 0.25..but strictly on larger diammeters
formers...let's say over 24cm...than it will be better to use 0.3mm wire than 0.25mm.
I guess Max already pointed on this. I havent try yet but intend to do asap.
So i have hunch that we can gain even more depth with larger diammeter and thicker wire..?!
Intend to make 32cm coil with 0.3mm wire these days. When finished i will report here results.
Nelson, here is photo of coil i already described ....Regards!

Hi Ivconic,
"Another important thing is 1M resistor...KT315 pointed me to it. After installing it
parallel to diode i gained much better performances...If you didnt previously, now is time"

do you mean R55 = 1M ... what's the effect on audio output ? better ?

Kind regards,
Max

[nelson]

Ok Ivconic, has always, many thanks for your unconditional support.

Ok here are my anwers to your previus post:

Nelson, Max already answered correctly on your question about trimmer...
I M OK WITH THIS.

"My problem is that my TGS with TL081, runs fine, but i can not get more than 22
cms for a 1 cms coin on air."
Yes, you came to very important point where you have to take problem of making coils
more seriously.
NOW I M WORKING ON THIS, HAS I GAIN MORE EXPIRENCE

It is obvious that you are not beginner any more, now is time to go one step further.
First, to be awared of full TGS performances, YOU MUST obtain LM308 and put on TL081 place.
Find 2 of LM308 and replace those TL081...just for a while. You will notice some
differences. You'll detect same coin at 24-25cm than...Next is to start making another
coil. You already have one coil ready and it will serve you as reference to make another-
better... Be sure that LF353 is at front end for now. Do not replace it with other...
I M STILL LOOKING FOR LM308 WITH NO SUCCESS, BUT I LL ALSO FOLLOW ALL PREVIUS INSTRUCTIONS TO SEE WHATS GOING ON.

Another important thing is 1M resistor...KT315 pointed me to it. After installing it
parallel to diode i gained much better performances...If you didnt previously, now is time
to solder it over 1N4148...look at my last schematic, you have everything there...
I LL SEE WHERE I SHOULD PUT IT, THANKS.

Next is to make coil i described last here; 255x137mm;
Wire gauge is 0.25mm (0.28mm with varnish)
For TX - 100w = 21.2ohms = 5.61mH, when constrained it should read 5.99mH
With this coil frequency should be 14.6KHz +/-200Hz
For RX - 105w = 23.4ohms = 6.18mH, when constrained it should read 6.55mH
THIS IS MY NEXT COIL UNDERCONSTRUCTION.

itself. Capacitors i used are all pollyprophilene (any syntax error?)...except those
few with picofarards values..
At RX there is 15nF = not changed, also P.P.type..
At TX also original values = not changed, also P.P. type...
All resistors are 1/8w,5%....all original values, no changes at all.
YES, I LL CHECK AGAING ALL COMPONETS AND ALSO TRY TO REPLACE FOR BETTER MATIREALS, SPECCIALLY FOR CAPS.

THE REST IS OK.

WHEN I GET MORE RESULTS I LL POST IT.

BEST REGARDS AND THANKS AGAIN FOR SUPPORTING OUR HOBBIE.

NELSON

[Max]

Hello all and thank you for reply's.
And as usual i have some other questions for you.
Ok....should i replace some elemnts from GS PCB and try to make GSlight? Is that smart thing to do as many of you have made GSlight as i saw?

Regard Dino

Hi,
I think the only difference is that on GSlight you haven't notch filter.
So performance are the same and circuit is simpler. That's it.

Do you need notch ? Rejecting or accepting just one kind of metal (range of disc ) ?

I think that for many of us this feature of notch is , at the end, not so important... but if you need build the standard GS.

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
Max.
I make the first one charging circuit that you show.

The cells I bought are 1,2V 700ma .

What could be wrong?
I conected like it should be.
Can the probleme be in my AC/DC adapter?

Hi tiktak,
I guess you mean NiMh cells, right ?

Ok if you had problems with first circuit you probably haven't discharged them first at least untill 20% of nominal capacity (less is better).

NiCd and NiMh cells need that battery are cycling charged-discharged to give the best... and avoid bad chemical reactions inside the cells that may damage them (e.g. H2 bubbles production...)

If you try putting in charge an already charged e.g. NiMh cell you'll probably damage it.

If e.g. your AC/DC supply gives 15v or more dc voltage and you try to connect battery (pack of 10 cells) already charged the current limiter will came in place limiting to the imposed charge current BUT you'll actually OVERCHARGE the cells pack.

This have catastrophic effects on NiCd or NiMh: overcharge is destructive for these devices... that's why simple chargers and even complex/bought ones always auto-discharge totally or near-to-totally cells before charge start.

So next time you need to charge this kind of batteries first use e.g. a 15ohm 20W or 30W big resistor to remove residual charge of them... so after e.g. 20 minutes disconnect resistor and start the charge using the limiter.

You can use e.g. also a 12v old car lamp... that need e.g. 0,5 amper and watch light drop ad indication of dicharging.

But I suggest you buy one small charger if you're not sure of what to do / want automate the process.

Kind regards,
Max

[dino]

GS

Hello all and thank you for reply's.
And as usual i have some other questions for you.
Ok....should i replace some elemnts from GS PCB and try to make GSlight? Is that smart thing to do as many of you have made GSlight as i saw?

Regard Dino

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
I make the first one charging circuit that you show.

The cells I bought are 1,2V 700ma .

What could be wrong?
I conected like it should be.
Can the probleme be in my AC/DC adapter?

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Ivconic.
I think that there is something wrong.When I have played with this 255x137mm and the TGS suplyed directly with ac/dc adapter the results were good,BUT I have noticed that my resistance is aweys HIGHER than yours?!?!?!?!
Why?I am shore that I use 0,25mm without varnish/and 0,27 with varnish/!
But for both coils I get higher resistance.
For 19cm TX=141 anr RX=150 I get 26 and 27ohm,but you say that it should be between 19 and 22.

p.s.what battery did you use?

[Max]

king cobra. right side.

Hi kt315,
have you noticed that components are really similar/equals to tesoro Royal Sabre ones..?

Even TIS75!

Kind regards,
Max

[kt315]

king cobra. right side.

Hi Max.
Thanks for the circuit. But I have these circuits for a long time. Photos of PCB are necessary for me.
I cannot be registered at this forum. I do not know why, but he does not accept mine Mail.
Best regards.
Vladimir.

Hi MAX.
[email protected]

http://www.md4u.ru/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=455

Best regards.
Vladimir.

[Max]

Hi.
Has sent PCB TGSL Ivconic, and aft_72005.
Please put on a forum.
I have big request if there is who has photos PCB King Cobra, or Royal Sabre.
I want to draw PCB these machines.
Best regards.
Vladimir.

Hi Vladimir,
thanks for the stuff you posted here.

What's your email address ?

Best regards,
Max