QED

[sinclairuser]

i wrote a long post about how this thread should be locked(since the inventor and patent holder is not even free to develop this), but i just deleted it because there is no point.
it obviously serves some purpose to leave it open to incite more nonsense(though what that is escapes me).
any comedy value was lost long ago.

[Pete the Builder]

Ditto for me.

As a newbie, when I came here initially, I was kind of expecting a bunch of different designs, doing slightly different things, in more-or-less buildable form. Of course, I had no concept of the complexity of the magnetics, discrimination limits, or annunciation issues, let alone the illegal and unfair snooping that major manufacturers would stoop to, like dogs eating each other's food!

But I kinda got lost in revolving-door versions, half-finished plans for wonderful detectors, and personal and professional vitriol I haven't seen outside YouTube comment threads.

Despite a serious (and hopefully temporary) downturn in my health, I'm still tremendously interested in these ideas, and I absolutely respect and admire the input and technical prowess of everyone helping, not just with the QED. But am I disappointed? Yeah. These ideas have SO MUCH potential, but like a cheap Korean capacitor, leakage reduces the potential almost to zero. There must be a better way.

There's nothing wrong with hobbyist builds, except that the designer won't make four million bucks overnight. Silicon Chip's metal detector designs sold thousands of boards with each new design. So there ARE hobbyists out here who want to buy kits! OK, you won't make a fortune, but you will probably get a statue of yourself built by adoring ex-engineers! Why so many people assume a major manufacturer simply MUST get on board is utterly mystifying to me. It just doesn't make sense, to jump in at the deep end, meanwhile everyone waits for something - ANYTHING- to happen.

FWIW, I did finish PCB layouts for at least two designs from here... But it's been so long since I could sit at my system that I've forgotten which ones they were! I'll check tomorrow and report back. At least then I can put my money where my mouth is! Sorry about the delay...

[satdaveuk]

Of course the QED is real! There's no question that it exists, and I would assume it even performs decently. The only question is, WHEN?

Quite some time ago I was asked to describe the independent development efforts being made with gold detectors. My employers had gotten wind of a couple of "killer designs" and naturally wanted to know if they were real. I labeled my report "Promised Ultimate Detectors," or PUDs for short. (Ironically, sometime after my report another PUD came along, advertised as the "Ultimate Detector." Is that funny or what?)

The problem with PUDs isn't with the U or the D, it's with the P. History shows, over & over, that they never happen. They get massively hyped, then fade away. My analysis as to why this keeps happening is:

1. Grossly underestimating the complete picture. An impressive result on the lab bench doesn't equate to impressive results in Australian dirt. Or any dirt. Once you've got good results on the bench, you're 5% of way there.

2. Ego gets in the way. Wanting to prove yourself before the proof is ready to serve is the part that really damages the effort. Bold performance claims naturally produce skepticism with folks who want to see the evidence. When the evidence doesn't happen, skepticism turns to disdain. And as this process stretches out over years, disdain becomes outright ridicule. The designer then spends an inordinate amount of time responding to the doubts and ridicule. This problem is massively amplified if the hype is coupled with contempt for the competition.

3. Wanting complete control. This is a combination of 1 & 2. The development of a new metal detector is not a one-man job, especially if it's your first one. Think you want to also manufacture the detector? This is a purt-near-guaranteed failing proposition. The turf is littered with dead metal detector companies.

Despite the fact that I work for a major manufacturer of beepers, I'm personally a proponent for independent efforts. Heck, that's why this web site exists! I'd love to see a Titan, Pulse Devil, QED, Goldsweeper, or Ultimate Detector released. But in every case so far, the developers have taken horribly wrong paths. Here are a few suggestions for a better path:

1. KEEP YER TRAP SHUT. Unless the project is a public effort, as many are here on Geotech. While premature public hyping doesn't necessarily break a project, it does incredible damage to the reputations of the design and the designer when things don't work out, as is the case 95% of the time.

2. Get help. Competent help. Preferably by someone who's been there done that. You can't do it all alone.

3. A day in the field is worth a month in the lab. Get it off the bench ASAP, you will quickly see whether that great idea is worth a crap.

4. Focus on the things that matter the most. Performance is #1. A talking detector is #1000. When you have the level of performance that will definitely sell, STOP THE DESIGN PROCESS and move on to making it producible. You'll get to implement that Next Great Idea in Version 2.

5. Forget about building detectors. Ain't gonna happen, at least on a scale that will pay the rent. Find someone else to do that. Again, someone who knows how. Also lets you move on to Version 2, which is more fun than potting coils all day.

6. Forget about patents. Unless you get the Partner Production Company (#5) to deal with them. That $5,000 patent ain't worth squat unless you've got the $100,000 to back it up.

7. Respect the competition. Like it or not, they are already successful, have lots of satisfied users, and are making lots of money. Focus on beating them with a better product, not with public displays of contempt. And never ever ever criticize a user of a competitor's product. That's one lost sale, or more.

Well put Carl
Think your quotes say it all

[Qiaozhi]

It was Mikebg not Aziz that pulled me up about grammar and punctuation!.
And for the record i consider myself Scottish and European the fact i am in "gods own county" (yeah right!) is due to family ties.

Och aye ... it was that MikeBG who was a bad 'un. Apologies to Aziz. Anyway neither of them probably understand Yorkshire speak.

[Davor]

So you often get stuck in voice recognition elevators like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFRoYhTJQQ

Hopefully there are many more of us that got stuck in even less fortunate countries so you can relax.

BTW, we throw rocks for fun, not ginga

[sinclairuser]

It was Mikebg not Aziz that pulled me up about grammar and punctuation!.
And for the record i consider myself Scottish and European the fact i am in "gods own county" (yeah right!) is due to family ties.

[ivconic]

Haaarhhhh haaarhhhh ... somebody mentioned my name here !? Haaarhhhh... haaarhhh.... haaaarrrrhhh...!
( it is not pneumonia - it is because of too much power ... with me!)

[Qiaozhi]

Leave the certified madman, who is sitting on the lots of blinking "red buttons" alone please.

http://i.qkme.me/3qprc0.jpg

Aziz

It's OK. They're not really wired up to anything anyway.

[Aziz]

Now then sinclairuser. Eeh by gum that Aziz is a bad 'un. Best y' do as he says and stop faffing around, or you'll be on a Scarborough warning!

Leave the certified madman, who is sitting on the lots of blinking "red buttons" alone please.

http://i.qkme.me/3qprc0.jpg

Aziz

[Qiaozhi]

Sorry mike,
I did not realise it was so annoying the most honest answer is idleness!, I will be more observant in the future.
ally x

Whoa I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien; I'm an Englishman in New York. (Sting)

Now then sinclairuser. Eeh by gum that Aziz is a bad 'un. Best y' do as he says and stop faffing around, or you'll be on a Scarborough warning!

[mikebg]

Englishmen in the WEB

Whoa I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien; I'm an Englishman in New York. (Sting)

[sinclairuser]

Sorry mike,
I did not realise it was so annoying the most honest answer is idleness!, I will be more observant in the future.
ally x

[mikebg]

Sinclairuser or Ally X,
The content of your posts is reasonable for me and I like it, but when one foreigner as me read them, the impression is that they are written by someone who does not know the rules of writing.. Why in your posts UPPERCASES are not used? I do not know what would do Doug if you post in his forum, but if I were an administrator of this forum, I would hide the information that you live in Yorkshire England because people will think that there is used simplified LOWERCASE Chinglish.
Yours Mike

[sinclairuser]

why is it that some of the most talented people in our field of interest cannot grasp the simple fact that until it is in the hands of the end user/builder/tester
all talk videos pictures even schematics or indeed tesimonials by independent experts is by its very nature simply biased-vaporware.
before you all go mad ill clarify this as this point is also lost on some here
its not me who needs convincing or any other user of this forum guru or otherwise its the vast majority of users the "target audience" if this detector is as good as its claimed and is reasonably priced then that means every detectorist
which to me means carl is once again correct a large manufacturer has to produce this or at least promote it but as i understand it you cant have one without the other
ally x
ps the point where other ground breakers failed before is production/marketing and or ease of use

[dougAEGPF]

Anyway, that's only my perception, I hope I'm wrong and its actually still proceeding behind the scenes.

Midas

I can assure that it is proceeding behind the scenes! Latest QED rev now has only 1 MC and the board is smaller.
dougAEGPF