Voodoo Main Discussion

[ivconic]

Happy New 2021. to all of You!
Let's hope that 2020. will never repeat again.
Best wishes from my side!

[MartinB]

I would be very honored to have a drink and chat with you Mr Ivica!
okay with you on the fear crisis..covid. our leaders are bad and even worse than that (especially ours). I no longer have any litz , so I will wait a bit, but, I will make a mono coplanar in hamburger mode .. I think it will be the solution !! contact me in mp for litzs. I'll see what I can do if you need to.

Hi Lamoiz
Try www.elecify.com for litz wire. They are based in China but delivery is very quick

[surfdetector]

Here is what I'm seeing on the voodoo front end that I think is causing some problems.
Thinking because the tx is damped and the Rx is not I'm seeing the Rx oscillations with faster coils in the tx Pi preamp first stage.

Testing my dual field DD coil on the Voodoo I can see the Rx in the Tx.

Thinking this might be the case with other DD type coils as well.

Do any of you see this?

.

Hi, Could you please post an image of this please?

[ivconic]

You may take TX coil + bucking coil as sort of "8" type coil.
Good noise suppression... but i am not sure about other benefits.

[godigit1]

I've made a version of this coil for the Voodoo (verticle planer concentric) Its what I first fired up with, So far Ive not tested any pro coils to compare to for performance.

Depth is not that great but I'm having noise Issues as Lamoiz did at first.
It may be due to using straight leads off the coils that are unshielded.

Also I used some compatible parts I have to switch out to see if that helps.

Here is what I'm seeing on the voodoo front end that I think is causing some problems.
Thinking because the tx is damped and the Rx is not I'm seeing the Rx oscillations with faster coils in the tx Pi preamp first stage.

Testing my dual field DD coil on the Voodoo I can see the Rx in the Tx.

Thinking this might be the case with other DD type coils as well.

Do any of you see this?

The concentric with a bucking coil does not exhibit this so as you guys are saying a bucking coil arrangement may be the way to go for the Voodoo.

I still have one more thing to try to the dual field DD and thats adding a bucking coil to the Rx to see if can cancel out the Rx interference in the Tx.

Other wise on a normal Pi with a damped Rx the dual field DD is quite good on the bench so far so I would think it should be workable on the Voodoo.
Also going to try a SEF coil off a Mxt.

[ivconic]

Maybe this style of coil, this from don bowers pdf i downloaded on making an IDX Concentric Coplaner coil.
[ATTACH]54088[/ATTACH]

If Don does not want met to share his image, i wll remove it, it is from his pdf i downloaded that is the whole process to build one of these, and who better to make the coil shell also, which i have bought some shells from him and they are as good or better than whites, or anyone else also,I dont have his permission to share the pdf so i wont.

This for the whites classic series which is a vlf, but it does use 5 wires like a whites.
Maybe have to build 2 coils for voodoo, one for vlf, and one for PI.
I have learned from my experience that when something can do multiple things, it cant do one thing the best as to say.
When i took my detectors out prospecting, i always took 2, my whites goldmaster, which ran at 50khz, and my tesoro which ran at 25khz.
Goldmaster for small gold, and Tesoro for larger. Both vlf. i would switch them. Goldmaster for smaller stuff, Tesoro for deeper bigger.Goldmaster more sensitive.

Truth.

[Matt_Rowe]

Maybe this style of coil, this from don bowers pdf i downloaded on making an IDX Concentric Coplaner coil.


If Don does not want met to share his image, i wll remove it, it is from his pdf i downloaded that is the whole process to build one of these, and who better to make the coil shell also, which i have bought some shells from him and they are as good or better than whites, or anyone else also,I dont have his permission to share the pdf so i wont.

This for the whites classic series which is a vlf, but it does use 5 wires like a whites.
Maybe have to build 2 coils for voodoo, one for vlf, and one for PI.
I have learned from my experience that when something can do multiple things, it cant do one thing the best as to say.
When i took my detectors out prospecting, i always took 2, my whites goldmaster, which ran at 50khz, and my tesoro which ran at 25khz.
Goldmaster for small gold, and Tesoro for larger. Both vlf. i would switch them. Goldmaster for smaller stuff, Tesoro for deeper bigger.Goldmaster more sensitive.

[lamoiz]

"...this bizarre year..."

Indeed. Bizarre too. Ugly. Unfortunate. Tough. Exhausting.
I am very pessimistic and dark lately. I lost several very close people in this year. NONE of those died directly from covid. But indirectly because of the covid madness.
All died from rather trivial reasons and causes, not being allowed to properly and regularly visit hospitals and cure. Most of them will be alive today if it was not a covid madness.
That's what makes very sour, dark and ugly personality from me lately. I am too angry and stressed up, to behave rationally and friendly.
I never was to much bright person anyway... but this outgoing year made me totally negative. I apologize firstly to George on this, who was almost always more than friendly towards me.
Also i apologize to all of you others too. You are not necessary obligated to put up with my behavior.
I was happy and enthusiastic about his book and new project on my bench.
But obviously the project overgrew my mental capabilities and i turned to complain and find the issues... instead to shut up and being silent.
...
Lamoiz i think you gone further than others with efforts. I salute you! Your appearance here is useful and educative. You offered some answers on questions i had, thanks.
SuperD coil making is having sense only with litz wire. Since i really can't obtain it here easy; i was looking up for alternative solution.
Yes concentric coplanar coil with one TX and two RX coils will probably be the most suitable choice.
But not in SuperD arrangment, more likely in simple round arrangement ... "coil in coil in coil". Larger the TX and two smaller RX. Or larger the RX1, than TX and than RX2.
Both ways is doable. Only need method to calculate the balance.
I am sure that now most of the help we can use from Eric. The "uncle Albert"!

...
You are in France. It is not too far away from Serbia. Some of my people live in France and some going there as part time job.
My beloved XP Deus is made in France.
It is not impossible some day to meet and have a drink and talk.

I would be very honored to have a drink and chat with you Mr Ivica!
okay with you on the fear crisis..covid. our leaders are bad and even worse than that (especially ours). I no longer have any litz , so I will wait a bit, but, I will make a mono coplanar in hamburger mode .. I think it will be the solution !! contact me in mp for litzs. I'll see what I can do if you need to.

[ivconic]

well !! once again Ivica won! and once again I totally agree with you. on everything you just wrote. Totally. So the omega has a very good selectivity, and a good precision, the DD has a good detection distance, but is less sensitive on small objects, especially in Gold, 3grm at 15 cm .. in hybrid mode, but it measures 37cm diameter ... The best, distance / dimension ratio is the super D, the same mass of gold is detected at 20 cm, while its total width is 25 cm. For PI mode, the fastest is the DD, with 6.5us, then the super D with 8.5us, far behind the omega with 15us. like you, I think the solution is in a coplanar coil, in an rx / tx / rx- sandwich ... this subject is rather complex for the coil, beginners will have a hard time, and with a commercial coil I think the The results will be average. We will have to finish this bizarre year really quickly. Ivica, too bad we are not closer, I think we will have shared a good drink together. Cheers, man.

"...this bizarre year..."

Indeed. Bizarre too. Ugly. Unfortunate. Tough. Exhausting.
I am very pessimistic and dark lately. I lost several very close people in this year. NONE of those died directly from covid. But indirectly because of the covid madness.
All died from rather trivial reasons and causes, not being allowed to properly and regularly visit hospitals and cure. Most of them will be alive today if it was not a covid madness.
That's what makes very sour, dark and ugly personality from me lately. I am too angry and stressed up, to behave rationally and friendly.
I never was to much bright person anyway... but this outgoing year made me totally negative. I apologize firstly to George on this, who was almost always more than friendly towards me.
Also i apologize to all of you others too. You are not necessary obligated to put up with my behavior.
I was happy and enthusiastic about his book and new project on my bench.
But obviously the project overgrew my mental capabilities and i turned to complain and find the issues... instead to shut up and being silent.
...
Lamoiz i think you gone further than others with efforts. I salute you! Your appearance here is useful and educative. You offered some answers on questions i had, thanks.
SuperD coil making is having sense only with litz wire. Since i really can't obtain it here easy; i was looking up for alternative solution.
Yes concentric coplanar coil with one TX and two RX coils will probably be the most suitable choice.
But not in SuperD arrangment, more likely in simple round arrangement ... "coil in coil in coil". Larger the TX and two smaller RX. Or larger the RX1, than TX and than RX2.
Both ways is doable. Only need method to calculate the balance.
I am sure that now most of the help we can use from Eric. The "uncle Albert"!

...
You are in France. It is not too far away from Serbia. Some of my people live in France and some going there as part time job.
My beloved XP Deus is made in France.
It is not impossible some day to meet and have a drink and talk.

[lamoiz]

Probably superD?
Can't do what you done because can't obtain litz wire.
Omega probably discriminates best but having lowest depths.
I tried DD and i am not satisfied.
I think the concentric coplanar coil will be the best choice for this detector.
Last night i dismantled White's Black Max 950 coil. Bad luck, i destroyed RX coil.
It was faulty already, cable breaks and once i opened it; i founded out that those two copper "rails" are also broken.
So it is not that much of a lost as it would be with some new coil.
But the way how White's coil was fine balanced with bucking coil and one lose turn over; makes me wonder about its usability in this project.
Since TX coil is in matter; bucking coil and lose turn will present a problem for PI TX.
Qiaozhi has positive experience with Troy coil, but that coil is fine balanced the same way as White's, having bucking coil and probably one or few lose turns over.
It will work alright in mixed mode as IB... but it shouldn't work alright in PI mode... at all.
Along with bucking coil it is closest to "8" coil type. I saw several previous attempts with such designs and i haven't see much of a performances so far.
This project needs its own coil design.
So you are closest to it with your attempts.
...
Would be interesting to see inner morphology of TDI coils...

well !! once again Ivica won! and once again I totally agree with you. on everything you just wrote. Totally. So the omega has a very good selectivity, and a good precision, the DD has a good detection distance, but is less sensitive on small objects, especially in Gold, 3grm at 15 cm .. in hybrid mode, but it measures 37cm diameter ... The best, distance / dimension ratio is the super D, the same mass of gold is detected at 20 cm, while its total width is 25 cm. For PI mode, the fastest is the DD, with 6.5us, then the super D with 8.5us, far behind the omega with 15us. like you, I think the solution is in a coplanar coil, in an rx / tx / rx- sandwich ... this subject is rather complex for the coil, beginners will have a hard time, and with a commercial coil I think the The results will be average. We will have to finish this bizarre year really quickly. Ivica, too bad we are not closer in distance, I think we will have shared a good drink together. Cheers, man.

[ivconic]

... other words... how to make concentric coplanar coil without bucking coil and lose turns?
I guess Eric has probably tried that in his rich long lasting career.
Simple two mono coils, slightly different diameters, no bucking coil.
Should work fine in PI mode. Questionable in IB mode.
...
I purposely am not mentioning ML coils. I opened all of those older series.
Without rich litz wire is pointless to make any attempts.
ML coils are working just fine though.
So maybe is good idea to try to obtain one of those.
...
Bottom line...
along with all opened issues by now; adding a coil "issue" makes this project totally abstract.
It is indeed interesting idea, interesting approach, no doubts about that.
But it has no bright future in diyers area.
Too many open issues to solve.
Alright, many will say it is doable, it is working already. Ok. But that's only in limits of theory and on the bench testings.
Even my deceased grandma can take soldering gun and solder all the components on pcb.
Also can eventually flash PIC.
Also can wound up some "coil".
But that's still too far away from serious proper use on the real soil, on the real sites.
Too many opened issues. Too many questions.
Patent office is pretty much fed up with such splendid ideas already.
Sour attitude from me?
I would say; realistic.
Let this be last bad thing that i "contributed" here with this outgoing horrible year.
God is my witness; i was indeed enthusiastic upon this.

[ivconic]

hi, not had a lot of time to work at the moment but, I did work a little bit anyway .. So, question, in your opinion ... who is the winner in the photo ?? I have the answer![ATTACH]54086[/ATTACH]
for information, all tested with the same capacity of 21.6nf, and make all the same values or almost. the DD tx = 370uh Rd 550r RX = 11.11mh. Omega TX = 355uh Rd = 400r RX 10.96mh, and superD TX 389uh Rd 550r Rx 10.6mh (5.3 + 5.3) the idea of all this is to share the experience and value if one shape is better than another.
they are also made with the same wires of Litz 175/46 on the TX and 0.18mm on the RX otherwise it does not make sense ...

Probably superD?
Can't do what you done because can't obtain litz wire.
Omega probably discriminates best but having lowest depths.
I tried DD and i am not satisfied.
I think the concentric coplanar coil will be the best choice for this detector.
Last night i dismantled White's Black Max 950 coil. Bad luck, i destroyed RX coil.
It was faulty already, cable breaks and once i opened it; i founded out that those two copper "rails" are also broken.
So it is not that much of a lost as it would be with some new coil.
But the way how White's coil was fine balanced with bucking coil and one lose turn over; makes me wonder about its usability in this project.
Since TX coil is in matter; bucking coil and lose turn will present a problem for PI TX.
Qiaozhi has positive experience with Troy coil, but that coil is fine balanced the same way as White's, having bucking coil and probably one or few lose turns over.
It will work alright in mixed mode as IB... but it shouldn't work alright in PI mode... at all.
Along with bucking coil it is closest to "8" coil type. I saw several previous attempts with such designs and i haven't see much of a performances so far.
This project needs its own coil design.
So you are closest to it with your attempts.
...
Would be interesting to see inner morphology of TDI coils...

[lamoiz]

hi, not had a lot of time to work at the moment but, I did work a little bit anyway .. So, question, in your opinion ... who is the winner in the photo ?? I have the answer!
for information, all tested with the same capacity of 21.6nf, and make all the same values or almost. the DD tx = 370uh Rd 550r RX = 11.11mh. Omega TX = 355uh Rd = 400r RX 10.96mh, and superD TX 389uh Rd 550r Rx 10.6mh (5.3 + 5.3) the idea of all this is to share the experience and value if one shape is better than another.
they are also made with the same wires of Litz 175/46 on the TX and 0.18mm on the RX otherwise it does not make sense ...

[SilverSurfer17]

Does this guy complain about everything ? Cheer up biddy life is to short to be so salty all the time also its not good for your health

[Qiaozhi]

Marty, Thanks. Coincidentally my copy of the book arrived today.
ivconic, sorry. I will be read-only in this thread until I build a Voodoo.
Qiaohzi/George, please add me to the list of those expressing thanks for your efforts and willingness to share with respect to both the The Voodoo Project and IMTD.
Best Wishes,
aa1ww