RELIC HAWK

[nelson]

Hi tiktak, can you share your Sprint Layout file of Relic Hawk.
So this way we can try to help.
Regards
Nelson

Hi,
Geo.
I dont now will this help you but just get to here and waned to share.
I see diferances in Ivconics pictures and this schematic.Look 4053 and you will see.
27M2 dual op amp can be replaced.Still some missing.Did you noticed the test points they are on schematic also?

[Max]

Hi,
looking better at it... it think U2 could be much probably another LM393... so I've updated schematic.

I see it better there than the 27M2... then there are also the two 4k7 pull-up that make me think it's an open collector device there and not a standard op amp... so another double comparator LM393.

The phase network (U6) is instead , much probably composed by a 27M2 like in previous schematic.

Seems really cool this way... what about the methods you use that RH ??? Which is good and why ???

Ivconic do you remember if is this way:
1x4024
3x4066
1x4053
1xNE5534
1xTL074
3x27M2
2xLM393
1xLM339

I think could be so...

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
Nice work!But please look the pictures of Ivconics original PCB and this 4053 pins!Something wrong there.

Nelson its in the beginig but anyway

[tiktak]

Hi,

Sorry cant upload!It gives me invalid file.Its lay.
Give me your e-mail I will w-mail it to you and anyone who willing to help here.

[strujas]

tiktak zip the file and then you can upload it.

[tiktak]

Hi

Hi

[tiktak]

hi

I think this tip from russian friends will help too.
Max what you think?

[Max]

Hi,
Max.
Nice work!But please look the pictures of Ivconics original PCB and this 4053 pins!Something wrong there.

Nelson its in the beginig but anyway

Hi,
I don't know which picture to look at... they are low resolution and give no help here about pins.

I think 4053 has sense connected that way, though seems strange at first impression...

You must understand there are analog gates inside... and can be used both ways : multiplexer or demultiplexer depending how you use them.

Now the tricky thing is that select inputs are driven by these signals,
referring to standard datasheet of 4053 by National:
A is driven by disc output stage
B is driven by battery checker circuit
C is driven by f/4 signal coming from 4024 divider

Notice also that a,b (lowercase on schematic) give information in phase / out of phase from geb chain... that is: all-metal info

Now... what I think is... the problem Geo reported is maybe cause he saw the letters a,b,c and all fade to black there... No guys... the a,b,c (lowercase on schematics) I think ARE NOT referring to the datasheet letters assignment for 4053... but are just shortcuts the schematic author put there to say... this point connects there where there's same letter... thus leading to a big confusion.

Geo do you confirm that ?

In the picture you'll see what I think is the source of all dubts around 4053 connections...

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

I think this tip from russian friends will help too.
Max what you think?

Hi,
it's really similar stuff... but problem is that from picture is not probable you could solve the enigma... better discuss over schematics troubles cause with it we can make assumptions and theories without having boards on hands.

Also notice that some stuff was changed for another TL074 there... and we actually miss the other LM393 and other stuff (27M2)

From what I see, the schematic make sense, though something still missing like power lines for op. amps and other stuff... that are implicit.

I think that schematic is a good starting point for the cloning!

The disc/audio stage is quite interesting cause it's kind of a mixer there...

Anyway... I wanna Ivconic jump in and look at the list of components to see if guesses could match existing schematic before making other assumptions.

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Cant you see this?
Also I stick to this pictures because they are from real RH!
And have read that this coinseeker is made according the first schemaitc post here and then optimized!The russians also claims that its nor RH schematic for shore!More like musquiteer.!So Geo unfortunatly mabe your PCB wont run but the folth is not your.
On other look this last schematic that you revize Max,have even test points marked that on first eye look on their places too.Maybe some small mistake.

[nelson]

Hi, here is my little contribution of coinseeker MD, made from forum photos, on sprint layout.
Anyone can help to check if this is ok or need somo mods.
Regards
Nelson

Hi,
Cant you see this?
Also I stick to this pictures because they are from real RH!
And have read that this coinseeker is made according the first schemaitc post here and then optimized!The russians also claims that its nor RH schematic for shore!More like musquiteer.!So Geo unfortunatly mabe your PCB wont run but the folth is not your.
On other look this last schematic that you revize Max,have even test points marked that on first eye look on their places too.Maybe some small mistake.

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Nelson.Dont weist your time.Coinseeker is a faliour!
It begined from wrong schemtic and ended with some average working device.
We will have full copy I promiss this.Even if I have to buy one and desolder peace buy peace.
For which goal Ivconic your PCB were perfect buy the way.
Thanks

[ivconic]

On this photo (TikTak posted) ic's are 4024,LM339 and 4053...as i remember.
Like i said, i dont have original pcb any more so can not compare and check.

Max you did splendid job. Excellent.
But your question is tough! On original RH pcb i had, ic's were without labels.
They (Minelab) scratched labels and extra put some resin over those!
So...i tried to distinguish some of ic's by looking and tracing their power lines and I/O pins. Also at the time i had Minelab Musketeer Colt (same as Advantage) with labels untouched (miracle)!!! Looking and comparing many times both pcbs i realised those are very simillar, almost identical in huge percentage. So i pulled out some conclusions. All i could remember i already posted here.
But you already done most of job by "deciphering" some ic's and pins.Thanks!

[Unregistered]

I have one question for all the friends in this forum: The semi that was given a new forum for the MRH, which was drawn by hand, mysterious to me is that U11 is drawn as 4xOAmp.Ovde it comes to the errors, if someone knows who is IC in question ?
Thanks in advance

[Max]

On this photo (TikTak posted) ic's are 4024,LM339 and 4053...as i remember.
Like i said, i dont have original pcb any more so can not compare and check.

Max you did splendid job. Excellent.
But your question is tough! On original RH pcb i had, ic's were without labels.
They (Minelab) scratched labels and extra put some resin over those!
So...i tried to distinguish some of ic's by looking and tracing their power lines and I/O pins. Also at the time i had Minelab Musketeer Colt (same as Advantage) with labels untouched (miracle)!!! Looking and comparing many times both pcbs i realised those are very simillar, almost identical in huge percentage. So i pulled out some conclusions. All i could remember i already posted here.
But you already done most of job by "deciphering" some ic's and pins.Thanks!

Hi,
thanks... I'm doing at my best !

Well... I actually forgot the labels were removed by Minelab... and that they also add usually resin or varnish inside the box to complicate reverse engineering... you are absolutely right: I made wrong question.

Now... I think that the components like in the last picture I placed are right about "kind"... I mean if there's an op. amp. there or comparator I think there should be in the original pcb, not considering the component model... e.g. we don't know if dual op. amp. is an 27M2 or say a TL082... but just could guess about their right identity.

I think 4024, 4066, 4053, LM393, NE5534 are sure right place... and dubts about ic identity could be related to integrators and quad-opamp device only, though I strongly belive the quad-comparator module is LM339 also in this case... if so the only dubt is about the quad-op-amp device...

It could be also an LM324 from what we know... but a TL074 or TL084 is more probable... or maybe even more probable it's something better about noise like an LS404 could be. Actually the choice of 27M2 could give some illumination... and I think the quad at U10 could be a 27M4 ic, quad version of the dual 27M2... and produced by many brands including TI and STM.

The position on the quad seems compatible with same noise level rate of integrators, so they probably used a quad with same characteristic , so of same family thus getting low power and low noise same time.

I noticed that on picture of board above there are 2 TL074... but I think it's kind of "downgrade" respect to original RH components list. I could expect "serious" parts on original RH circuit... cause of stability issues and TL074 there seems to me really trivial component on that masterpiece circuit!

Maybe some folk added some TL074 cause was handy there and good to make some low end clone ??? I think it's not the same having an TL074 or a TS27M4 there... TL074 is good... of course... but not as good as I would expect in RH's circuit.

Did you notice RH was much more stable respect to Musketter ? (I remember you told me about)

If so... probably is not only board changes involved but also active components employed: I think they at ML employed in RH the best on the market compatible with still reasonable production costs... and at that time they could have find 27Mx was better ic family for their "main" detector... what do you think about ?

Here is datasheet of 27M4.

Kind regards,
Max