TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Max]

Hi Max
Yes, it just what i mean,your measures post at here:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...=12692&page=57

Hi,
yes I remember these pictures I posted there but don't remember about coin example.

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
Same with me.
I dont SELL!!
I dont leave holls!!!I have seen hugh and every time I am just asking my self why they do this!!!To find some rusty nails!
But every one have a view point of his own!
Thanks for shared experiance.
Was the gold clean when you digg it?Were it deep?What was the signal?
I have found many copper bronze.Never gold or silver.
Maybe I dont tune my geb right?!??!
And like you say its wais of time,and some times when its good I find some pieces?
We will check this.From now on I will aleys carry a piece of ferite rod with me on field!
Can you post pictures of your TGS unit?

[zzy]

Hi Max
Yes, it just what i mean,your measures post at here:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=12692&page=57

[Max]

Hi Hi Qiaozhi and Max,

I don't have an original Tesoro coil.The first image shows my TX signal compared to the RX signal at the output of the preamp,the second image is Max had post on Page 57,you 'll see the two image are almost same in phase shift.
mine:
[ATTACH]4952[/ATTACH]
Max:
[ATTACH]4953[/ATTACH]

Today i measure my homemade 23.5cm DD coil.
Wire is 0.25mm
TX: 5.88mH,23.58ohms,Q=1.57
With this coil frequency should be 14.5KHz
RX:6.35mH,24.45ohms,Q=1.64

ivconic
TX - 100w = 21.2ohms = 5.61mH, when constrained it should read 5.99mH
With this coil frequency should be 14.6KHz +/-200Hz
For RX - 105w = 23.4ohms = 6.18mH, when constrained it should read 6.55mH


I think both Max and ivconic not got the max deepth,in TGS design,to get good ground balance,it'll lost some sense. At no GBE mode,you'll get more 8-10cm.
Max,do you test the 20 eur cent deepth in all metal mode?

Hi,
your measures are nice and I think is all correct, frequency, resistances are very similar and also phase shift.

Yes, with GEB untuned I get greater e.g. silver detection, but we know this. The problem is that when you have to use it on real soil you need GEB fully operational... otherwise is wasted time, lot of instability and false signals from untuned geb for that soil.

I test about always using DISC otherwise it's specified the all-metal mode. I'm interested just in DISC mode detection cause in many places there's too iron stuff to use all-metal and it's just a pain switch on disc at each beep to see if iron or not.

Do you mean the measures I made in older posts maybe ? I don't remmeber now ...too many posts here to remember everything.

Let me know what/where I wrote and I'll explain that...(hopefully).

Kind regards,
Max

[zzy]

no

Hi Hi Qiaozhi and Max,

I don't have an original Tesoro coil.The first image shows my TX signal compared to the RX signal at the output of the preamp,the second image is Max had post on Page 57,you 'll see the two image are almost same in phase shift.
mine:

Max:


Today i measure my homemade 23.5cm DD coil.
Wire is 0.25mm
TX: 5.88mH,23.58ohms,Q=1.57
With this coil frequency should be 14.5KHz
RX:6.35mH,24.45ohms,Q=1.64

ivconic
TX - 100w = 21.2ohms = 5.61mH, when constrained it should read 5.99mH
With this coil frequency should be 14.6KHz +/-200Hz
For RX - 105w = 23.4ohms = 6.18mH, when constrained it should read 6.55mH


I think both Max and ivconic not got the max deepth,in TGS design,to get good ground balance,it'll lost some sense. At no GBE mode,you'll get more 8-10cm.
Max,do you test the 20 eur cent deepth in all metal mode?

[Max]

find... and troubles...

Hi,
Max.
Here is raining and I were planed to go prospecting.Very sad.
How are you?
In last posts you tell me that you have a lot of finds with TGS.But my question is what kind?Modern coins?or something interesting?
I just read some stuffs and I think its worth to try CC coil with TGS.
Did you have any expiriance with 3CC?
Now I am shore that the depth will increece.We have this nice DD 27 for mineralized ground calculated byu Ivconic so no need to change it.
But for normal soil its better/deeper/to use 3CC right?

Hi,
I don't talk much of what I find... most of items are modern cause with cars for everyone (old good Ford!) the world changed a lot... people move... leave everything on soil or just miss coins, keychains, whatever etc... some things are from 1940-50 (war stuff and other kind) I found many bullets and military stuff other things are really ancient but sure much more rare to find today.
Found also small 1 gold nugget but was very lucky cause are very rare at my places.

I just make personal collection of them, do not sell even a piece, so for me is just hobby not business or something. Also I'm not the sunday THer that leave a place with 200 dug holes and not covered again... like many here at my place do everyday.

I found mainly copper, bronze and silver items with TGS and also some gold things but I will not show here cause some things are very localizing items and I don't wanna post about my location or similar informations.

The reason I do so is that there are very stupid persons around still in 2008 that really belive some stuff must stay ONLY in some museum... even if there are tons, millions (or billions ?) of same identical pieces in museums already... many of them are under a staircase of museums, I saw many times with my eyes what kind of smart people these are and the stuff they made... so better do not put this stuff here cause the world is full of S**T no need to add more and no reason to drown in that ocean to know it's just out there.

I posted one time a fragment of bronze nail... and similar stuff that you can make idea of what kind of stuff I can find in my good places.

The ridicolous fact is that everybody at my place knows what I'm saying here is the pure, crystallized truth... but nobody with the required power will ever change that positions or wrong ideas for truly effective and modern regulation even if laws are advanced now... there are always stupid people around ready to make some idiotic assumption! be aware of these!

I know of really good people having a lot of troubles with them... for just a bunch of CRAP of no value they had at home! Crazy!

And this is in the civil and advanced EU ! Pfff!

Everytime I read of these facts I can only laugh of what a comic strip are that EU regulations...

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi, now i have a scope on my shack, so please can anyone post a sketch about how to null DD coils.
I had search old forums, but i didn´t found anyting about.
Has i remerber i think i must connect RX coil to the scope and then get close the TX coil until i get the lowest mV reading. Is this correct or i should do anything else?
In advance many thanks, but last time i used an oscilloscope, was in 1981.
Regards
Nelson

Hi,
put a suitable capacitor parallel on RX coil (like 15nF for TGS RX coil) and put a dumping resistor in parallel too (1K is ok)... then try null the best as you can lower down few mV peak peak on scope. That is about nulling.

Problem related to phase could require you choose different locations or shaping DD coils different to achieve that, but, generally the above procedure will work good.

If you cannot go down to few mVolts then you need at least 15mVpp for it to start working cool.

Kind regards,
Max

[nelson]

Hi, now i have a scope on my shack, so please can anyone post a sketch about how to null DD coils.
I had search old forums, but i didn´t found anyting about.
Has i remerber i think i must connect RX coil to the scope and then get close the TX coil until i get the lowest mV reading. Is this correct or i should do anything else?
In advance many thanks, but last time i used an oscilloscope, was in 1981.
Regards
Nelson

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
Here is raining and I were planed to go prospecting.Very sad.
How are you?
In last posts you tell me that you have a lot of finds with TGS.But my question is what kind?Modern coins?or something interesting?
I just read some stuffs and I think its worth to try CC coil with TGS.
Did you have any expiriance with 3CC?
Now I am shore that the depth will increece.We have this nice DD 27 for mineralized ground calculated byu Ivconic so no need to change it.
But for normal soil its better/deeper/to use 3CC right?

[Max]

Do you have an original Tesoro coil? Then you will see the correct phase relationship between the TX and RX signals. Your own homemade coil must match this setup. Please attached image, which shows the TX signal compared to the RX signal at the output of the preamp.


Have you even seen one in real life?
You cannot express an opinion about the Nexus until you've tested it.

Hi Qiaozhi,
yes I think this is the right answer for his questions.

Let me ask you a thing that I don't have clear ...I think I read in the patents but now these informations are vanishing from my memory...

When we made disc on VLFs we compare phase on RX channels.

I mean we take quadrature samples on received signal after preamp, 90° apart one each other and so we have then e.g. 2 channels like in TGS each with its own amplitude. Then after the amplitude on these two channels are compared (Jack Gifford's patents talk about scale factor applied and then comparision made... but it's the same stuff I think) by e.g. analog stuff like op. amps and then result is applied to comparators inputs.

This actually is like extracting from RX signal the influence due to ground and ferromagnetic , and the influence of non-ferrous and compare by amplitude thus extracting a phase information related to target.

Now the question is: which relationship exist between TX signal and RX as whole, I mean... sure exist a phase relationship that rely on target composition and influence on coil... but the quadrature demodulator action is just for giving the two ferrous/non-ferrous distinct amplitudes ?

I other terms... if I wanna disc stuff cannot I just look at absolute phase between tx and rx signal (like you showed in picture, just coil phase in air there) or I need absolutely the 2 channels ???

The question is maybe a bit stupid... cause I understand that we need the two channels cause we wanna cancel out ground signal... but , in the case I wanna disc stuff just on air, isn't enough having just a look at phase between tx and rx signal ?

I made all these thoughts cause of the Ivconic's circuit about phase shift measure... that will be cool (if works good) to tune coils phase and also to disc stuff at least "on air"... to see if detector is working good or not.

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

hi

Oh.This hurts!
Did you?

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Qiaozhi and Max,

Your explain is very good, but in my test it's very strange.Today i test the TGS,I find that just like Max had post in page 57,The GEB channel is sampled at the peak point,the GBE is good.
乔治，I find that i set the GEB channel sampled at the zero-crossing point,the GEB can't work at all.I test in the loess soil.
Max i also use a ferrite pole to test,i find it can also makes phase shift in the Rx coil.I set the GEB channel sampled at the peak point,another channel sampled at the zero-crossing,the sense and the GBE were work good. but the is not at the max,loss about 8cm in deepth.
Very sorry my bad english.

Do you have an original Tesoro coil? Then you will see the correct phase relationship between the TX and RX signals. Your own homemade coil must match this setup. Please attached image, which shows the TX signal compared to the RX signal at the output of the preamp.

For nexus dont be worry.I think its not so good as stated.
Many different upinions.
And I cant belive that no one have copyed nexus.
See you

Have you even seen one in real life?
You cannot express an opinion about the Nexus until you've tested it.

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max I think that we miss something with ower DDs.
Ivconic have done his work perfrct calculating this coil,
but he starts from nothing.I mean no data at all.
So can there be comp.winding in quality DDs?

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
I belive you Max and I am fully agre with you.But the top layer of leaves is 12-25 cm. so when you add level diferances,stones, etc. and keep in mind that there were 100 people before you there digging for hours every signall!
You get my point.
I dont even looked at PI.I now its no good.
But I am shore that VLF can go deeper,just need new Idea!!!!!
For nexus dont be worry.I think its not so good as stated.
Many different upinions.
And I cant belive that no one have copyed nexus.
See you

[Max]

Hi,
Hah.Nice but almost inposible!
I am shore that it can go a little bit deeper.Agree?
Can we use tha audio stage from TSS to inproove TGS-s one/replace/?
So all tesoros have the same depth?
But now is 2008.There must be some idea that goes under 40cm for small coins.
p.s.how you wire coil to TGS?

Hi,
I wired in the way it disc stuff... I already explained some (many) posts ago: if you reverse leads you lose good discrimination.

A little deeper ? Maybe but it's worth a try and all the work required for just some 2-3% more if it that way ? I think not... cause if you made wrong shield you'll lose more 5-8% depth and more... so it's not so great stuff to gain. Better making good/better coils on TGS if so.

All tesoro don't have same depth... some are PI detectors so are different; some are computerized versions like tejon or cortes with MCU stuff and visual ID and some have not sinusoidal TX.

No they aren't all the same... but old uMax series is made of all similar detectors... golden sabre is similar in performance to silver... silver to bandido... compadre is less sensitive than bandido but how much ... 2 inches maybe ? Not big differences ... maybe maximum gap is around 2 inches from top of the range to lower end detector like compadre.

Some have multichannels (4 instead of 2 etc) but depth is about the same.

"But now is 2008.There must be some idea that goes under 40cm for small coins."

yes , sure... but the problem is exponential decay of magnetic params... and noise/ground signals that mask targets... so reducing SNR for stuff buried deep. There's no revolutionary VLF detector at Tesoro (and same for other companies) cause they just made them digital but performances of today are about the same of 10 years ago... and vs some models of also 20-30years ago (like old GOOD VLF/IB/BFO) they LOSE, still today !

What's good in TGS modding is that you can tweak it to the limit and gain the hall of fame of your detectors experience if you are skilled enough and have time to invest...

The only good solution to go deeper than VLFs is using PI but you will lose discrimination or have unreliable one... that's a BIG (I will say ENORMOUS) price for some extra inches depth.

Also... PI are not good in some places... where just VLFs could operate good way, even if at less depth than a PI on air there ! Belive me... I tested many of them with catastrophic results... even the more expensive designs... NO WAY. Be aware of pottery, ceramics, fired bricks etc when using them... NO WAY! Just VLFs are GOOD in pottery hell!

So... don't ask for deeper stuff that has too reliable disc... simply there isn't at now using small power like tesoro's. You can think at nexus and similar if wanna gain depth but who has schematic or coil details ?

Maybe next generation of PIs will solve this better than putting hi tx power out on VLFs... I hope so.

Kind regards,
Max