TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Max]

ApBerg, friend, can you post top/bottom scan or print of this pcb?
Winter is coming, i would have more than enough time to experiment....I would like to make this also...If it is possible...
Many thanks in advance!
Best regards!

Hi,
yes winter is coming... also now rains too much for my taste...and I cannot use my assembled TGS ...I've reduced total weight to 1,45Kg now... and is light and comfortable...as never before.

Do you think the royal is worth a try ? Cause of dual-tone id ?

To me is complex enough and with just so few improvements to discourage further experimenting with... but of course, you can find it good for new experiences about VLFs.

I think that Lobo is a good new candidate... and at same complexity level of tgs.

I think instead that the toltec100 is much more interesting...say an order of magnitude more... but the schematics is so complicated that I give up with it from start... it's not an easy or even "normal" DIY project!

What's truly interesting in toltec100 is the multiple-tone-id and also the meter id... but I think it's one of the most difficault projects here one can try... much like e.g. CZ-5 or Goldscan: real challenge and just for experts.
What do you think about that?

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Hello Frends.

The Royal Sabre is not the same as the golden pcb.
Think it is not a good project to make !!
Keep it simple.....

Best regards.

Ap

ApBerg, friend, can you post top/bottom scan or print of this pcb?
Winter is coming, i would have more than enough time to experiment....I would like to make this also...If it is possible...
Many thanks in advance!
Best regards!

[Qiaozhi]

Avatar

Hi Detectoman,

How about this for your avatar?

[Darko]

This two tone target ID was interesting for me but I think now, I will all of my attention point to finish repairing my TGS. Thank you Max, and thank you 1843.

Regards,
Darko
.

[detectoman]

Hi,
is discontinued dual channel BW 15MHz scope... (of great brand)...if in good conditions and working it's just right what you need here to see all stuff on the screen.

Don't know if 100usd is good price for it anyway... but if is in good shape think that could be fine.

Kind regards,
Max
__________________
...now this red cap gets a rap from these critics

max: veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy thanks to you, this scope work fine, is sufficient good, for my, how you say, i am not expert in this stuff, but quickly learn, for my is not problem, i am very reary, i am some children whit new toy, jejejeje,
i echange one man, this oscilloscope, for others electrics wood tools total of cost 100
usd, thaks for your patiente and amability whit us
jjejejjee apologies for bad english
best regards for you and family
detectoman mexico bayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Max]

Well, then I'll try to design one just for testing, when got some time for that. I think Royal quite similar with TGS and this sholdn't be hard to realize . I hope it is worth to see advantage of this machine. Thanks anyway.

Regards,
Darko

Hi,
if you wanna try royal sabre you can do with a bit more of efforts and goodwill.
Me personally think that's somehow not good cause, as also ApBerg said, it's ,more complicated and don't give real big improvements.

About depth it will be about the same of TGS if right optimized: oscillator is the same, rx preamp is about the same, integrators are similar etc... same power and same circuit and parts mean about same depth.

The real advantages are the pinpointing mode and the "two-tones-id", though a bit complex to use cause one must take care of notch pot setting to have that target id working good.

I'd like to test the pinpoint mod I've posted on my TGS but unfortunately I can't at now... cause I need it up and running and cannot dismantle again. I'm sure that changing all-metal mode to non-motion and adding retune the TGS will act just like royal in pinpointing mode... and only loss will be the 2-tones disc... that personally I think is not so good implemented that way.

TGS is already a very nice machine and very similar to royal and others... but the big advantage to me is the simple implementation... much more simple than e.g. toltec100 or royal... making e.g. a pcb for toltec100 will be a real challenge for anyone cause of really huge and messy circuit.

Best regards,
Max

[1843]

Well, then I'll try to design one just for testing, when got some time for that. I think Royal quite similar with TGS and this sholdn't be hard to realize . I hope it is worth to see advantage of this machine. Thanks anyway.

Regards,
Darko

Why?
Don't waste your time... As Max said, it is not as goog as Goldensabre...

Kind regards,
1843

[gagi_pirot]

Ok. Thanx ya all for stuff U advices me 4, especialy GEO & MAX. I order some parts and i'll pick them up in 2 days. Till' then so' long

[Darko]

Hi Darko,

Sorry, I have only the schematic.

Regards!

Well, then I'll try to design one just for testing, when got some time for that. I think Royal quite similar with TGS and this sholdn't be hard to realize . I hope it is worth to see advantage of this machine. Thanks anyway.

Regards,
Darko

[Darko]

Hi,
if things change when e.g. you move from sockets ICs is probably something related to soldering of some pin at sockets... so I suggest you check that too. Your soldering work must shine, if not shine there is possibility of wrong solder joint.

If you use TL081 instead of 308s TGS will work too (but not as good... a bit less sensitive at least on mine)... then you can compare results.

Also, I've posted pictures of fake 308s sold me by a shop... they proved fake devices that gives lot of erratic noise and unpredictable results: sometimes they seem really good... but after a while , also some minutes only, they can generate enormous amount of noise. I suggest you test with various IC for teh reason that if you will see a stable operation with e.g. TL081 you can guess that your 308s are probably fake.

If you have burnt devices shorting some pads or tracks at the output stage could be things like you reported : stronger and easier saturations before device totally damaged , that's why buffer stage damage could follow a thermal runaway inside the case of IC... then you can check for that (before they rest forever) touching case of them... if warm thermal runaway happened due to initial "stress" at output.

This could be explaination: now try TL081 there or metallic 308s.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,

things changed when I short accidently + and - voltage on the board. At that time the resistor 22R got burned. After replacing it, sensitivity come into being 15-20cm in air for 2cm coin and audio become barely audible. Before TGS burned, sensitivity was 32-35cms with normal audio. Then I decided to replace all of IC's and transistors. Heh, heh, easyest way for me to fix electonic stuff. At first I soldered IC sockets on board and then replace all of transistors with new ones, and put new IC's in sockets (except LM308s because I wasn't have new ones, neither TL's. Anyway I think LM308AN I have already on board are original) and change also speaker with new one. And voila! Loud and clear audio.Like in batt test.Very loud. More, strong then first time I tryed my TGS at Ivconic home with his exelent coil. Audio was loud but sensitivity remain 20 cm. Then I start search for errors on board. Clean flux, and resoldered some pins and... at the end audio deceased. Well, for such audio is better to die honorably than to live in shame. Now I'm waiting for a pair of metalic LM308H and couple of TL081. Just in case I'll first try with TL081. Will see tomorrow.

Best regards,
Darko

[1843]

Hi Darko,

Sorry, I have only the schematic.

Regards!

Hi 1843!

Do you have some file or jpg of Royal Sabre PCB?

Regards,
Darko

[Max]

Hi,
Max.
Can you give more details about this circuit.Because I have found that the problem is in the multimeter that I use for nulling coils!When conect like you say to try to null I have noticed that when I reach 0.00 mV the zero moment is now short,but wide!I can moove noticable distance RX over TX and multimeter reads 0.So I am pretty shore now that this is waht is messing me!
What multimeter did you use for sucsesfull nulling?
Thanks

Hi,
I use scope ... but any good AC millivoltemeter will do the job. Also Fred is right... you can measure at pin7 of LF353 for minimum voltage saving you the work of making yourself amplifier/millivoltmeter circuit.

It's your choice.

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

question for anyone:

i purched one oscilloscope used this day, of name tektronics tipe 422 in 100 dollars
have anyone opinion on these?
is good?
or is discontinued?
what say me
thanks
apologies bad english
detectoman

Hi,
is discontinued dual channel BW 15MHz scope... (of great brand)...if in good conditions and working it's just right what you need here to see all stuff on the screen.

Don't know if 100usd is good price for it anyway... but if is in good shape think that could be fine.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

One strage thing happend with my TGS before 308s go to the rest. I don’t know, maybe by mistake i shorted some connections, I don’t know, but after I put all IC’s (except LM308s) in sockets and turn TGS On ,audio tone become very loud wille detecting. I mean very loud! Loud like in batt test! And without changes in sensitivity! With good sensitivity even with nonchalant nulled coil. Also, like Max explain: "with 1M instead is a totally flat response, always loud... independently by target size or distance...“. But there on my PCB that 1M resistor was omited! After that 308s go bye, bye. I think. Now all is the same but sensitivity go down and audio become barely audible. So seems here I have some ghosts. Or just I have to learn much more about electronics.

Regards,
Darko

Hi,
if things change when e.g. you move from sockets ICs is probably something related to soldering of some pin at sockets... so I suggest you check that too. Your soldering work must shine, if not shine there is possibility of wrong solder joint.

If you use TL081 instead of 308s TGS will work too (but not as good... a bit less sensitive at least on mine)... then you can compare results.

Also, I've posted pictures of fake 308s sold me by a shop... they proved fake devices that gives lot of erratic noise and unpredictable results: sometimes they seem really good... but after a while , also some minutes only, they can generate enormous amount of noise. I suggest you test with various IC for teh reason that if you will see a stable operation with e.g. TL081 you can guess that your 308s are probably fake.

If you have burnt devices shorting some pads or tracks at the output stage could be things like you reported : stronger and easier saturations before device totally damaged , that's why buffer stage damage could follow a thermal runaway inside the case of IC... then you can check for that (before they rest forever) touching case of them... if warm thermal runaway happened due to initial "stress" at output.

This could be explaination: now try TL081 there or metallic 308s.

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Hello Tiktak,

I am sure any voltmeter will do the job, you just have to put it in AC at the output of lf353 (pin 7) and you will find that the best nulling is very dificult to find,no dead spot at all!
and you will never get 0v if everything is normal...
Good luck,
Fred