TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

To nelson

I almost finish my TGS too.Did you use tl082 for replacement?
I think that this metal detector shoud be capable of more than ACE250!
38cm for 1cm coin!This is a very good depth!With proper coil this machine will be monster.And every one tells that it's discrimination is noticable!
So, you have missed something??@?@?@!!?!
Thanks for sharing your results here

[nelson]

Hi Ivconic, i hope time out was nice.

Yesterday a finish my Golden Sabre and i tested my DD coil wich is by now showing the same deep has ACE 250.
A few days ago, you posted the schetch below that gives us a good idea on how to make a good coil. Now i m traing to copy that draw, but i need the center measure showing on it. Also, let me know the exact diameter used when you make it, because has you know if you change diameter a few cms and use the same turns has show, you will never get the inductance needed.
I also posted my ace 250 coils values to try in the future a homemade coil.
In advance many thanks
Regards
Nelson

PD: nice car you show on the picture.

[Qiaozhi]

Dear friends,
going on small trip, for few weeks, prospecting of course!
Wish you nice holliday and good weather.
See you soon!
P.S.
Who says prospecting is only hobby!? How about this Buggati?

Have a great trip!
Is that your car?

[ivconic]

Good bye!


Dear friends,
going on small trip, for few weeks, prospecting of course!
Wish you nice holliday and good weather.
See you soon!
P.S.
Who says prospecting is only hobby!? How about this Buggati?

[nelson]

Excellent report on MD expirencies Ivconic.
Yes i agree that my problem deals with the coil and i m working on that.
Parallel to this, i also have measure my ace 250 coil and i think that garret put a limited performance coils to this machine. Has i post down on my scketch, i belive that this coil has to high inductances for the working frequency wich is aron 5.6 khz. What do you think Ivconic, Max or anyone that has more expirence than me on building homebrew coils?
After i finish my work with GS i will like to build a good coils for my ace 250. Any ideas?
Regards and thanks for supporting me.
Nelson

Max: "Of course not minelab stuff...OK...but really good stuff.."
Max....i just adore Minelab...any Minelab! But have to admit that
some Tesoro's models are reached Minelab's performances.
After making first Golden Sabre and experimenting with it....I dare
to say that it is much better than Musketeer !!! This is maybe very
subjective so sorry if some of you disagere.
I also had Relic Hawk, i thought it can't be better! The very best of
VLF's i have been seen so far. My closest friend have Sovereign GT,another
friend have X-Terra 70, another have Explorer II SE.....
I took them all with me on real field and put under various tests...
My experiences (also subjective) are not so good!
X-Terra 70 dissapointed me much! Explorer also ! Sovereign GT is much
better, very deep, although not so easy to handle. It will need to much
practice to work with it good. But, no one beat Relic Hawk! Not even close!
So i wonder myself; where is progress! Relic Hawk is very old model!
What guys from Minelab did last 10 years!? "Rolling thumbs" ???
Except new design,LCD,less weight....i see no improvements....
Sorry, this is also my subjective opinion. Do not take it 100%.
About Golden Sabre; i am using small coils with it...20-24cm diamm. mostly.
What should be if i make 35cm coil for it? Would it beat Relic Hawk???
I just have to try and see.
G.Sabre have such good discrimination, i havent see better on any other
machine! Can discriminate iron (small or big) absolutelly! Also foil.
Of course this mostly depends on coil, i put enormous effort to adjust
and perfectise my coils as better as my conditions (amateur) allowed me...
Depth is also great!
RObert have Garrett GTI 2500 (I sold it to him few years ago) and G.Sabre
showed greater depth even from GTI 2500!!! Not to mention disc. which is
Garrett's main drawback...
Sovereign is better than G.Sabre in some conditions, while in some is not!
Only detector which showed noticeable better performances than G.Sabre is
White's DFX with eliptical coil. Hell of machine, although, also not so easy
to handle. To much menus...i dont like those.
Fisher 1266 turns to be a "toy" comparing to G.Sabre...CZ7 also...
Dont know about Coinstrike, havent tested it yet..Looking forward to test it.
The reason Tesoro is not very popular yet is (i think) in original Tesoro's coils.
I think those original coils are not matched as best as possible with machines.
Fact that you can use almost any coil on any machine shows that those are not
matched exactly to origin machine.
I noticed that, while experimenting with few coils i made for G.Sabre. I made
3 G.Sabres so far and 4-5 coils....Not every coil works same on every machine,
although i made identical coils? It need exdended adjustments to match coil and
machine. Some corrections arround oscillator and simillar. Those picofarads also
have to be matched better for better disc. and geb.
Also resistances arround 2907 in oscillator. R1 to R4 need a bit experimenting.
Instead R1 i put 5k trimmer, same can be applied to other resistances....
You understand what i mean? To make 2907 to radiate more power in coil....
etc.etc.
But all experiments need to be done at exact machine and exact coil. My experiences
are only mine. I guess those will not benefit you or anybody else. To many
differences between used components,tolerances, quality...So no wonder if you cant
gain same what i gained and vice-versa...
But generally Nelson should have much better results than posted!
Nelson, your detector MUST detect coin at 20cm distance...at least. And that
distance should be starting point to you to continue to adjust it for better
performances...Must be something mistaken or wrong in your setup?
Most likely it is bad nulled coil!
Make another one, but this time use thinner wire!
Try and inform us about results...
regards!

[ivconic]

Yesterday prepared now posted....


Max: "Of course not minelab stuff...OK...but really good stuff.."
Max....i just adore Minelab...any Minelab! But have to admit that
some Tesoro's models are reached Minelab's performances.
After making first Golden Sabre and experimenting with it....I dare
to say that it is much better than Musketeer !!! This is maybe very
subjective so sorry if some of you disagere.
I also had Relic Hawk, i thought it can't be better! The very best of
VLF's i have been seen so far. My closest friend have Sovereign GT,another
friend have X-Terra 70, another have Explorer II SE.....
I took them all with me on real field and put under various tests...
My experiences (also subjective) are not so good!
X-Terra 70 dissapointed me much! Explorer also ! Sovereign GT is much
better, very deep, although not so easy to handle. It will need to much
practice to work with it good. But, no one beat Relic Hawk! Not even close!
So i wonder myself; where is progress! Relic Hawk is very old model!
What guys from Minelab did last 10 years!? "Rolling thumbs" ???
Except new design,LCD,less weight....i see no improvements....
Sorry, this is also my subjective opinion. Do not take it 100%.
About Golden Sabre; i am using small coils with it...20-24cm diamm. mostly.
What should be if i make 35cm coil for it? Would it beat Relic Hawk???
I just have to try and see.
G.Sabre have such good discrimination, i havent see better on any other
machine! Can discriminate iron (small or big) absolutelly! Also foil.
Of course this mostly depends on coil, i put enormous effort to adjust
and perfectise my coils as better as my conditions (amateur) allowed me...
Depth is also great!
RObert have Garrett GTI 2500 (I sold it to him few years ago) and G.Sabre
showed greater depth even from GTI 2500!!! Not to mention disc. which is
Garrett's main drawback...
Sovereign is better than G.Sabre in some conditions, while in some is not!
Only detector which showed noticeable better performances than G.Sabre is
White's DFX with eliptical coil. Hell of machine, although, also not so easy
to handle. To much menus...i dont like those.
Fisher 1266 turns to be a "toy" comparing to G.Sabre...CZ7 also...
Dont know about Coinstrike, havent tested it yet..Looking forward to test it.
The reason Tesoro is not very popular yet is (i think) in original Tesoro's coils.
I think those original coils are not matched as best as possible with machines.
Fact that you can use almost any coil on any machine shows that those are not
matched exactly to origin machine.
I noticed that, while experimenting with few coils i made for G.Sabre. I made
3 G.Sabres so far and 4-5 coils....Not every coil works same on every machine,
although i made identical coils? It need exdended adjustments to match coil and
machine. Some corrections arround oscillator and simillar. Those picofarads also
have to be matched better for better disc. and geb.
Also resistances arround 2907 in oscillator. R1 to R4 need a bit experimenting.
Instead R1 i put 5k trimmer, same can be applied to other resistances....
You understand what i mean? To make 2907 to radiate more power in coil....
etc.etc.
But all experiments need to be done at exact machine and exact coil. My experiences
are only mine. I guess those will not benefit you or anybody else. To many
differences between used components,tolerances, quality...So no wonder if you cant
gain same what i gained and vice-versa...
But generally Nelson should have much better results than posted!
Nelson, your detector MUST detect coin at 20cm distance...at least. And that
distance should be starting point to you to continue to adjust it for better
performances...Must be something mistaken or wrong in your setup?
Most likely it is bad nulled coil!
Make another one, but this time use thinner wire!
Try and inform us about results...
regards!

Thanks!
You have answer to most questions in my head with one post!
I use the same principal as simple as posible!
Well done!How much depth you achive in higly mineralized soils?on a average roman coin???And on this fields there are awso mani brass pices?
Will G.Sabre handle this ?What depth you think I can reach?

" Today i finish coils:
TX coil is 101 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 5.6 mH, resistance 26.2 ohms.
RX coil is 107 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 6.45 mH, resistance 27.4 ohms.
Diameter of both coils is 19 cms."
??? Something isn't right here? Are you used round former with diamm.19cms?
When i used round former 22cm diamm. and 110 wind. of 0.25mm(0.28mm) at the
end i gained from 21-23 ohms (dont remember exactly) resistances..???
Inductances were approx. 6.x uH...(also dont remeber)...
According to your datas i am absolutelly positive that you used 0.25mm wire
with varnish on. Which means that your wire is thinner....arround 0.22/0.23mm.
Only in this case you can get such high resistances!
Right now, i am making my coils very succesfully without paying to much
attention on exact datas; no. of turns and diamm.
I am using D shape with 21cm longer diamm. Wound 140 windings for TX and 145-150
windings for RX. Resistances are arround 20-22ohms, dependable of how good are
windings constrained. On both coils Al tape applied to form Faraday cage...
Rest you know according to posted sketch.
I pay a lot of attention on nulling coils, usually takes 10-15 minutes to null
those very accuratelly, without scope or any other instrument. Just connected to
G.Sabre and using nickel coin (1cm diamm.); swinging constantly over coil and
adjusting null relying on audio. The best depth (in All Metal mode) also means
best possible nulling.(it showed to me as simpliest method so far, also most
accurate). Usually it can detect that coin at 36cm in the air, so i know when
nulling is done.
When finishing, later check it again with ferrite rod to gain
absolute no detection on it.Not even a "tic" on it. When all finished, i usually
use "super glue" to stiff coils to each other, also both to housing. When dry,
than use teflon-based, two-component mass to fill it up good, and let it for
10 hours to dry. And that's it!
Oh, i forgot to say; GEB trimmer should be somewhere on the middle when nulled.
Later when tried first time on real field, i usually readjust GEB trimmer a bit.
It is usually 1-2mm up or down from origin...not to much! Just about to loose
ocassionall "tic-tic" on highly mineralised soil....Best method so far. At least
for me.
I do not pay to much attention on gained frequency, but it is usually from 13.xx
to 14.xx kHz....
Point is not to obey everything you see on this forum, but to make detector which
will work as best as it can be....So minor jitters are more than usuall from one to
another device....
I already made 3 G.Sabre's and 2 S.Sabres....Satisfied much with all those...
Do not intend to change "brand" for longer period. It showed as excellent detector
as hand-made...!
One hint more:
Good coil housing is huge problem! I tried this and that....finally i have
universal solution! Plastic circle record holder from old turntable!!!
Best housing ever!
It must be some special plastic alloy, since it is light yet very hard!
So good to use as coil housing...i havent seen better solution so far!
Now i can make coils in series...as standard! Ha! Good idea!

[Max]

Hi,
You have make better results,but this machine should be capable of much more!
This distance can be achived even with magnum metal locator!
I can't give opinion,but the problem is realy in the coil nuling!
Thanks for sharing your expiriance!

Hi,
yes... the MAGNUM... ...NO NO...

At the moment maybe on that homebrew...but

there is for sure a (or some) problem(s) with coil or other thing cause I got "incredible" results on bandido and so can say that the guys there at Tesoro know what they do...
These are great and stable detectors anyone would have... JUST A BIT TRICKY TO GET THEM WORK.

Of course not minelab stuff...OK...but really good stuff.

Best regards,
Max

[porkluvr]

WWWWWWWW????

Or you are blind or I am there are two points that are marked with W on this picture!So .....

Geto - you genius!
Do not be angry. You found Ground. It's was lost because some stupid butthead put a "W" on it. I was confused before, but now I can go work some more. Thank you for being so observant. Hooray!

To nelson

Hi,
You have make better results,but this machine should be capable of much more!
This distance can be achived even with magnum metal locator!
I can't give opinion,but the problem is realy in the coil nuling!
Thanks for sharing your expiriance!

[Geto]

hi

I am not happy from your words!!'
Its hurts?Why you think that my brain is dead!I can make you feel ba too!
Is this your wish?I am asking so much questions,because I am only for 3 months in electronics?!?!?!!?How can I knew those things????Thats why I ask to learn something new!

WWWWWWWW????

Or you are blind or I am there are two points that are marked with W on this picture!So .....

W?
I hope being brain dead is not contagious. I'd better not read this thread anymore, just in case it is.

[nelson]

Hi Ivconic.
Ok, yes each coil is 19 cms in diameter and total form is to be round.
Or when you said 19 cms diameters means that both coils shoul measure 19 cms in diameter?
By now with this configuration i can only detect a 1.7 diameter gold ring at 8 to 10 cms.
The TX coil performance is intermitent and i think this is due to a short circuit with one TX lead with the shield, so i have to check both coils.
Also,what are the functions of those two pots on the board, how i do calibrate it?
You also toll something about to forget ground connection for RX coil on the board.
In advance many thanks.
Regards
Nelson

" Today i finish coils:
TX coil is 101 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 5.6 mH, resistance 26.2 ohms.
RX coil is 107 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 6.45 mH, resistance 27.4 ohms.
Diameter of both coils is 19 cms."
??? Something isn't right here? Are you used round former with diamm.19cms?
When i used round former 22cm diamm. and 110 wind. of 0.25mm(0.28mm) at the
end i gained from 21-23 ohms (dont remember exactly) resistances..???
Inductances were approx. 6.x uH...(also dont remeber)...
According to your datas i am absolutelly positive that you used 0.25mm wire
with varnish on. Which means that your wire is thinner....arround 0.22/0.23mm.
Only in this case you can get such high resistances!
Right now, i am making my coils very succesfully without paying to much
attention on exact datas; no. of turns and diamm.
I am using D shape with 21cm longer diamm. Wound 140 windings for TX and 145-150
windings for RX. Resistances are arround 20-22ohms, dependable of how good are
windings constrained. On both coils Al tape applied to form Faraday cage...
Rest you know according to posted sketch.
I pay a lot of attention on nulling coils, usually takes 10-15 minutes to null
those very accuratelly, without scope or any other instrument. Just connected to
G.Sabre and using nickel coin (1cm diamm.); swinging constantly over coil and
adjusting null relying on audio. The best depth (in All Metal mode) also means
best possible nulling.(it showed to me as simpliest method so far, also most
accurate). Usually it can detect that coin at 36cm in the air, so i know when
nulling is done.
When finishing, later check it again with ferrite rod to gain
absolute no detection on it.Not even a "tic" on it. When all finished, i usually
use "super glue" to stiff coils to each other, also both to housing. When dry,
than use teflon-based, two-component mass to fill it up good, and let it for
10 hours to dry. And that's it!
Oh, i forgot to say; GEB trimmer should be somewhere on the middle when nulled.
Later when tried first time on real field, i usually readjust GEB trimmer a bit.
It is usually 1-2mm up or down from origin...not to much! Just about to loose
ocassionall "tic-tic" on highly mineralised soil....Best method so far. At least
for me.
I do not pay to much attention on gained frequency, but it is usually from 13.xx
to 14.xx kHz....
Point is not to obey everything you see on this forum, but to make detector which
will work as best as it can be....So minor jitters are more than usuall from one to
another device....
I already made 3 G.Sabre's and 2 S.Sabres....Satisfied much with all those...
Do not intend to change "brand" for longer period. It showed as excellent detector
as hand-made...!
One hint more:
Good coil housing is huge problem! I tried this and that....finally i have
universal solution! Plastic circle record holder from old turntable!!!
Best housing ever!
It must be some special plastic alloy, since it is light yet very hard!
So good to use as coil housing...i havent seen better solution so far!
Now i can make coils in series...as standard! Ha! Good idea!

[ivconic]

Make it simple!

" Today i finish coils:
TX coil is 101 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 5.6 mH, resistance 26.2 ohms.
RX coil is 107 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 6.45 mH, resistance 27.4 ohms.
Diameter of both coils is 19 cms."
??? Something isn't right here? Are you used round former with diamm.19cms?
When i used round former 22cm diamm. and 110 wind. of 0.25mm(0.28mm) at the
end i gained from 21-23 ohms (dont remember exactly) resistances..???
Inductances were approx. 6.x uH...(also dont remeber)...
According to your datas i am absolutelly positive that you used 0.25mm wire
with varnish on. Which means that your wire is thinner....arround 0.22/0.23mm.
Only in this case you can get such high resistances!
Right now, i am making my coils very succesfully without paying to much
attention on exact datas; no. of turns and diamm.
I am using D shape with 21cm longer diamm. Wound 140 windings for TX and 145-150
windings for RX. Resistances are arround 20-22ohms, dependable of how good are
windings constrained. On both coils Al tape applied to form Faraday cage...
Rest you know according to posted sketch.
I pay a lot of attention on nulling coils, usually takes 10-15 minutes to null
those very accuratelly, without scope or any other instrument. Just connected to
G.Sabre and using nickel coin (1cm diamm.); swinging constantly over coil and
adjusting null relying on audio. The best depth (in All Metal mode) also means
best possible nulling.(it showed to me as simpliest method so far, also most
accurate). Usually it can detect that coin at 36cm in the air, so i know when
nulling is done.
When finishing, later check it again with ferrite rod to gain
absolute no detection on it.Not even a "tic" on it. When all finished, i usually
use "super glue" to stiff coils to each other, also both to housing. When dry,
than use teflon-based, two-component mass to fill it up good, and let it for
10 hours to dry. And that's it!
Oh, i forgot to say; GEB trimmer should be somewhere on the middle when nulled.
Later when tried first time on real field, i usually readjust GEB trimmer a bit.
It is usually 1-2mm up or down from origin...not to much! Just about to loose
ocassionall "tic-tic" on highly mineralised soil....Best method so far. At least
for me.
I do not pay to much attention on gained frequency, but it is usually from 13.xx
to 14.xx kHz....
Point is not to obey everything you see on this forum, but to make detector which
will work as best as it can be....So minor jitters are more than usuall from one to
another device....
I already made 3 G.Sabre's and 2 S.Sabres....Satisfied much with all those...
Do not intend to change "brand" for longer period. It showed as excellent detector
as hand-made...!
One hint more:
Good coil housing is huge problem! I tried this and that....finally i have
universal solution! Plastic circle record holder from old turntable!!!
Best housing ever!
It must be some special plastic alloy, since it is light yet very hard!
So good to use as coil housing...i havent seen better solution so far!
Now i can make coils in series...as standard! Ha! Good idea!

[porkluvr]

What next?

W?
I hope being brain dead is not contagious. I'd better not read this thread anymore, just in case it is.

[Geto]

hi

Hi,
Sorry!
I will try to be more clear!
I have saw those two pictures.But think that there is still something missing!
Thats why I ask.

And for those two W points:
There is one going in 2x3 switch and other that is not conected at all???
Whats is its purpuse?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
JUST FOLLOW THE PICTURE. BOTH FARADAY SHIELDS ARE CONNECTED TOGETHER.
The red core to L1 winding start?And blue core to L2 start?
--------------------------------------------------------------
And the END-s of L1 and L2 with them ?And then going in cable shield and black core?
Thanks