TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[amtech2005]

Hi...
I want to TGSL 1265 so I've a problem.
What is the TGSL 1265 coil's measurements?
Regards.....

Hello Friday , You need to go back and start on at least "page 94" of this thread "Tesoro Golden Sabre" . See Post#2398 from member Dirceu . See thread #2359 Dirceu again . #2413 member Eclipse . #2414 MAX , also see all of Ivconics posts , and other members posts and Also page 98 is a bunch of stuff on coils. This tesoro Golden sabre thread is probably the biggest "knowledge base" on tesoro Golden sabre or "closely related" , On this planet !!!
So it depends on the what size and type of search coil you want to use. Ivconic has now discovered when you center tap the TX portion of the coil it greatly improoves performance . So the Tesoro search-coil building is not really Final Yet !!!! But very Close . Re-check the last 10-15 pages on this thread , you are Guaranteed enough information to make a very good Search-coil for the Tesoro Golden Sabre light-1265 !!!!!!!! Anyone else is welcome to comment here also , or even post their final coil data if they have it. But what is best , is to read everything , becauase it is very educational , and here on Geotech Forum it is the "Best Classroom" of any Metal detecting and or Electronic Forum in the world !!!!!!!!!!......AND YES , IVCONICS HOBI-DETEKTOR SITE IS 2nd Best in the World and CATCHING UP !!!!!!.................Eugene

[Friday]

Hi...
I want to TGSL 1265 so I've a problem.
What is the TGSL 1265 coil's measurements?
Regards.....

[ivconic]

???

[karlos x]

Hi Ivconic !
Good job.......Let her be forcing with yorself !

[tiktak]

Hi

Hi,
Ivica.
Ok.Now its clear.I will try it ASAP.
From what I can understand this is nexus idea!So the bad signals are pumped out and this results in less noise and from this we achive more depth and how diferent coil and performance.Right?
When the coil is ready some caps should be matched!Right?
Tks

[ivconic]

PCB not ready yet. When ready i will post it for sure.
Center tapped coil means only TX with center tap. For example i used 0.25mm wire and 54+54 windings on already explained coil form/holder.
Wiring differs a bit. TX ends are connected with separate coated wires through cable. Center tap is connected to gnd at pcb. TX ends are connected at proper spots at pcb. Both faraday cages are also connected at gnd on cable (shield) and on pcb gnd.
Cheers!

[tiktak]

Hi

Hi,
Ivica.
Exelent work as aweys!
Now its almost complete and Hell of machine!
Can you please upload PCB view of last schematic and sp.layout files Please?
How you make centre taped DD coil?What is diferance in wiring?
Thanks

[maxbiri]

Thanks Max

I will test this simple circuit, i have cz6a with 10" coil and sametime i need a small pointer.

Bye Maxbiri

[Max]

Hi Max

For bz1 what i need? a simple piezo or one with oscillator inside?
Diode are 1n4148?

Thanks in advant.

Bye Maxbiri

Hi,
I've used shottky diodes... cause have handy... but any small signal silicon diode will be fine, so 1N4148 will work just cool there.

I don't know what's original BZ1 thing... but guess was selfoscillating buzzer.

As BZ1 you can use a selfoscillating buzzer thing...like murata ones: I did that way and works about good, sharp tone when near the object and get full detection... cracked sound when is detected at more far distance... I like it.

I tested also common small 8ohm speaker: it works too with a VCO like effect I don't like much... so used the murata instead.

I think no simple piezo buzzer is right there... but you can try, I didn't.

Kind regards,
Max

[maxbiri]

Hi Max

For bz1 what i need? a simple piezo or one with oscillator inside?
Diode are 1n4148?

Thanks in advant.

Bye Maxbiri

[Max]

Hi MAx.
About the automax pinpointer you build, can you send or post coil details and of course any mods you have made?
My email is [email protected]
In advance many thanks
Regards
Nelson

Hi Nelson,
I posted them in the message above yours... look at it.
Coil is very easy and not critical at all, other turns ratio will work too but I used 120/60 for now.

With that data you can run it at around 100Khz.

Remember that phase is important, so if doesn't work reverse one coil leads.

When you turn it on at first you just need turn the pot till it sounds, then back till just hear small/low cracks or nothing at all... then it's at max sens... and will detect 1eur at about 2''.

It will start cracking at far but nearing object it will rise the tone till strong beep will signal object in really safe way, you can't miss it.

It's good for smaller things too... like nuggets and the like: you need to near it more but can detect 3mm stuff at 4-5mm with a good sound.

Another advantage is that's really stable... you switch it on and off... and works about the same: other PP need constant retuning at each switchon...no good.

Kind regards,
Max

[nelson]

Hi MAx.
About the automax pinpointer you build, can you send or post coil details and of course any mods you have made?
My email is [email protected]
In advance many thanks
Regards
Nelson

Hi,
my pinpointer is from a KT315's schematic... he draw from reverse eng. of the pcb of automax precision version 2. You can see it in the picture, all by bjts, no ics.

Ivconic followed other tesoro's designs to make the PP mod on TGS! i like it... I made something similar but I think is lost in this thread at unknown page...many months ago... but I never tested it.

The reference inductances are those of uMax coils... you can read some values here: http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...oils/index.dat

In concentric there's something 5.6-5.75mH at TX and usually around 6.2mH at RX.

Now... actually we are interested mainly in DD config... but use slight different values about inductances... we get about 5.45mH for TX and 5.6-5.7mH for RX in Ivconic's DD design.

Notice that in tesoro's 11'' DD is something 5.90 at Tx and 5.38 at Rx, but consider also that our DD goes deeper !
With original one 11'' you'll get it run around 14Khz or below... but with our DD here you'll get around 14.6 - 14.69Khz (100 turns).

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

PS: I forget params for PP

used 120turns for tx, 60 for rx on a 62mm long ferrite rod... like in AM radio.
Wire is 30AWG.

Used then 4700pF for C2 and 1Mohm for the thresh. pot.

For transistors could use anything, I've used BC547/BC557

The zener at vibro stuff depends on voltage of vibro... if 3V use a 5.1V diode.

And works cool!

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

PP interesting - where did you get circuit?

TGSL not so L any more.

I have a couple of review questions - getting very difficult to search huge thread:

1. What is the "official" inductance of the TX and RX coils for TGSL? Did anyone actually measure Tesoro GS coils? Or has anyone concluded a "best" inductance from experiments?

2. What size wire is OK for RX coil? Is 32 awg OK? Has anyone tried even thinner? From schematic, it seems maybe resistance of RX coil not important (unless we are "on resonance" but Max says no). Why not 40 awg wire?

------------ progress -------------

I made first coil last night - tried to make Ivconic "28" (26.8 ) cm TX DD, but too excited did not follow Max design exactly with bevel corner and overlap area - I made an exact half circle. But I think OK for experiments.

Wire thickness: Measured about .0135 inch (.343 mm) with enamel - 28 awg? - used it anyway, because my other wire is 32 awg.

Coil form: I used approx 27 cm inner diameter (half circle shape). Tried 120 turns but got 7.2 mH (loose) and 18.5 ohms.

Removed turns - now 105 turns, 5.85 mH (tight), 16.3 ohms.

But what is best? I can remove more - do we want 5.45 mH or what? Your wisdom is appreciated.

Interesting experiment: I stretched coil into a circle shape, and then inductance went to 6.31 mH. I put it back to semicircle and it returned to about 5.9 mH.

I will post some pictures later for fun (and show mistakes).

I will start circuit when more parts arrive. Funny, many places not have .22 capacitor, or too expensive, huh? But I find them eventually. Old semiconductors not so easy either.

I will not build final MD right away but rather build circuit for many tests and experiments first.

Cheers,

-SB

P.S. Still cannot find R47, R48 on TGSL-1265 PCB -- not needed?
P.S.S. Can Sprint have another layer for part number?

Hi,
my pinpointer is from a KT315's schematic... he draw from reverse eng. of the pcb of automax precision version 2. You can see it in the picture, all by bjts, no ics.

Ivconic followed other tesoro's designs to make the PP mod on TGS! i like it... I made something similar but I think is lost in this thread at unknown page...many months ago... but I never tested it.

The reference inductances are those of uMax coils... you can read some values here: http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...oils/index.dat

In concentric there's something 5.6-5.75mH at TX and usually around 6.2mH at RX.

Now... actually we are interested mainly in DD config... but use slight different values about inductances... we get about 5.45mH for TX and 5.6-5.7mH for RX in Ivconic's DD design.

Notice that in tesoro's 11'' DD is something 5.90 at Tx and 5.38 at Rx, but consider also that our DD goes deeper !
With original one 11'' you'll get it run around 14Khz or below... but with our DD here you'll get around 14.6 - 14.69Khz (100 turns).

Kind regards,
Max

[simonbaker]

coil inductance

PP interesting - where did you get circuit?

TGSL not so L any more.

I have a couple of review questions - getting very difficult to search huge thread:

1. What is the "official" inductance of the TX and RX coils for TGSL? Did anyone actually measure Tesoro GS coils? Or has anyone concluded a "best" inductance from experiments?

2. What size wire is OK for RX coil? Is 32 awg OK? Has anyone tried even thinner? From schematic, it seems maybe resistance of RX coil not important (unless we are "on resonance" but Max says no). Why not 40 awg wire?

------------ progress -------------

I made first coil last night - tried to make Ivconic "28" (26.8 ) cm TX DD, but too excited did not follow Max design exactly with bevel corner and overlap area - I made an exact half circle. But I think OK for experiments.

Wire thickness: Measured about .0135 inch (.343 mm) with enamel - 28 awg? - used it anyway, because my other wire is 32 awg.

Coil form: I used approx 27 cm inner diameter (half circle shape). Tried 120 turns but got 7.2 mH (loose) and 18.5 ohms.

Removed turns - now 105 turns, 5.85 mH (tight), 16.3 ohms.

But what is best? I can remove more - do we want 5.45 mH or what? Your wisdom is appreciated.

Interesting experiment: I stretched coil into a circle shape, and then inductance went to 6.31 mH. I put it back to semicircle and it returned to about 5.9 mH.

I will post some pictures later for fun (and show mistakes).

I will start circuit when more parts arrive. Funny, many places not have .22 capacitor, or too expensive, huh? But I find them eventually. Old semiconductors not so easy either.

I will not build final MD right away but rather build circuit for many tests and experiments first.

Cheers,

-SB

P.S. Still cannot find R47, R48 on TGSL-1265 PCB -- not needed?
P.S.S. Can Sprint have another layer for part number?