TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Hah.Nice but almost inposible!
I am shore that it can go a little bit deeper.Agree?
Can we use tha audio stage from TSS to inproove TGS-s one/replace/?
So all tesoros have the same depth?
But now is 2008.There must be some idea that goes under 40cm for small coins.
p.s.how you wire coil to TGS?

[Max]

No,
My ideal was other.
But anyway thatmk you did answer to my question.
But Royal Sabre should be more advanced then TGS.Unless from name.
Will explain you my idea next time.

Hi,
yes I understand you... it has some features more... but I don't think it will go deeper than conventional cloned TGS cause tx stage is similar and other parts too...

I think instead LOBO is more interesting thing but problem is that is complex and results will be always in the depth range of other tesoro's.

What's actually make the difference are:
-tx power , more power more depth (if not overload rx)
-high SNR

If you find a good compromise you'll get a top of the range VLF like modded TGS.

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi,

No,
My ideal was other.
But anyway thatmk you did answer to my question.
But Royal Sabre should be more advanced then TGS.Unless from name.
Will explain you my idea next time.

[Max]

Hi,
Max how are you?
I have a queston Did you used Tesoro Royal Sabre?
Think that have some interested features that can be integraited in TGS!
Also what you think about the depth?Will it be deeper?
Thanks

Hi,
no I haven't till now, but I think many tesoro's behave the same.

For example I have both bandidoII and TGS and are somehow similar about performances and features, both with fine disc expecially (in my case) TGS.

I think depth is not an issue if we consider all that schematics that are pretty close one another... the range you can get with TGS you can get also with bandidoII if use good components and do good work when you clone device. I have very good depth on bandidoII but have better disc on TGS.

It's a problem due maybe to some components values that were wrong or something about other components.

If you compare many schematics you'll see many things similar. E.g. in silver you have pretty similar oscillator that is in others etc... there are 2 basic osc in uMax series... the ones with zener and the ones without. Zener is there to fix amplitude and in some models there's the osc without it (e.g. in bandidoII).

Then few differences about frequencies... like 10Khz or 12Khz or 14Khz cause some models are intended for nugget hunting (TGS) and others like general purpose (e.g. bandidoII).

All about same power... same voltage peak-peak at TX so ... similar performances. Tesoro's shine about disc, at least for standard models depth is average... but in optimized ones like custom TGS etc. you can get a top of the range VLF at the price of maybe 30eur of components and some spare time, as you already know.

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max how are you?
I have a queston Did you used Tesoro Royal Sabre?
Think that have some interested features that can be integraited in TGS!
Also what you think about the depth?Will it be deeper?
Thanks

[Max]

Hi Qiaozhi and Max,

Your explain is very good, but in my test it's very strange.Today i test the TGS,I find that just like Max had post in page 57,The GEB channel is sampled at the peak point,the GBE is good.
乔治，I find that i set the GEB channel sampled at the zero-crossing point,the GEB can't work at all.I test in the loess soil.
Max i also use a ferrite pole to test,i find it can also makes phase shift in the Rx coil.I set the GEB channel sampled at the peak point,another channel sampled at the zero-crossing,the sense and the GBE were work good. but the is not at the max,loss about 8cm in deepth.
Very sorry my bad english.

Hi,
I don't know... maybe you have swapped rx coil leads ? This will create 180° phase reversal on your RX signal... and can create confusion here.

What I have is that with settings I showed here... (changed a bit but are about the same now) I got really good results both with ferrite and on soil.

With ferrite I can disc almost totally apart small cracks at few mms really short distance and still detect silver from very far, even if not so far as when geb is tuned out... sure.

Same happens but with less signal reduction (so really far detection) with e.g. an half-crown that's composite copper-nickel coin 3.2cm diameter.

I found so many items on soil with TGS that I'm sure this is the right setting !

I had problems with early solution of GEB trimpot and changed for a panel mounted control: I change from time to time according to soil to avoid device beeps due to vertical oscillations during sweeps.

Qiaozhi: do you think/remember I have right setting on my TGS (do you remember the pictures I've posted here some months ago ???) ?

If I remember well you told me it was all like expected....

Kind regards,
Max

[zzy]

impossible come true

This is correct.
The GEB channel is sampled at the zero-crossing point, because metal targets exhibit a phase-shift, but the ground signal does not. In this case, the ground signal gets ignored.

Hi Qiaozhi and Max,

Your explain is very good, but in my test it's very strange.Today i test the TGS,I find that just like Max had post in page 57,The GEB channel is sampled at the peak point,the GBE is good.
乔治，I find that i set the GEB channel sampled at the zero-crossing point,the GEB can't work at all.I test in the loess soil.
Max i also use a ferrite pole to test,i find it can also makes phase shift in the Rx coil.I set the GEB channel sampled at the peak point,another channel sampled at the zero-crossing,the sense and the GBE were work good. but the is not at the max,loss about 8cm in deepth.
Very sorry my bad english.

[Qiaozhi]

Hi,
one signal is sampled at zero crossing, the other at peak (maximum of wave).

This was explained by Qiaozhi some (many) posts ago... but you can find similar procedures in Gifford's patents too... is the usual way to use syncronous quadrature demodulator... samples are phased out by 90°.

One used for geb/ferromagnetic, other is the main channel... once tuned GEB (rotating the axis of coordinate system) you'll get minimum reading on main channel for ground realted signals. This way you will ignore ground influence.

Kind regards,
Max

This is correct.
The GEB channel is sampled at the zero-crossing point, because metal targets exhibit a phase-shift, but the ground signal does not. In this case, the ground signal gets ignored.

[Max]

Hi Max
You must not at zero crossing,because in that the GBE can't work,
just as you had post at page 57,the photo "F7,F8,F9,F10" show that you sample at the wave crest.so you can't get the max deepth.
Today i made some test,i found that in theory we can't get both max deepth and good ground balance.Good ground balance will lost some deepth.
an get more deepth will lost more ground balance.

Hi,
one signal is sampled at zero crossing, the other at peak (maximum of wave).

This was explained by Qiaozhi some (many) posts ago... but you can find similar procedures in Gifford's patents too... is the usual way to use syncronous quadrature demodulator... samples are phased out by 90°.

One used for geb/ferromagnetic, other is the main channel... once tuned GEB (rotating the axis of coordinate system) you'll get minimum reading on main channel for ground realted signals. This way you will ignore ground influence.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi MAX!

Do you remember how many turns have in 28DD IVCONIC's coil ???

Regards

DIRCEU

Hi,
TX=100
RX=105

Kind regards,
Max

[zzy]

zero crossing?

Hi,
yes, at zero crossing. About your coil I think could be good for testing, but if you wanna more depth you must realize something in the 10'' range (25cm or more like the Ivconic's 27.5cm DD we are talking about).

About resistance... I found Ivconic's values about right for my wire and so about the same he wrote. Also I got exactly same frequency at TX when tight the wire on coils using tape etc.

I found just some inductance values a bit different but this maybe depends on the way Ivconic measured inductance there... anyway , inductance is not so important if you already know number of turns required to match frequency and actually match it.

So I think your wire could be smaller than 0.25mm, maybe is less. Could happen sometimes that varnish is thicker than expected and so total diameter is compatible with expected value but real diameter of bare wire is less.

When wire is less in diameter it usually responds more of tightening it... so giving a very sharp loss of frequency when tight. With right wire you get lower freq but just few respect to untightened wire.

I suggest you try the "bayer" method suggested by Ivconic to clean some wire and measure right diameter on it with a micrometer if possible.

You can also use 0.30mm wire if you have but taking care on frequency you get (must be about the same... few hundreds Hz more than 0.25... so say 14.7-15Khz).

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max
You must not at zero crossing,because in that the GBE can't work,
just as you had post at page 57,the photo "F7,F8,F9,F10" show that you sample at the wave crest.so you can't get the max deepth.
Today i made some test,i found that in theory we can't get both max deepth and good ground balance.Good ground balance will lost some deepth.
an get more deepth will lost more ground balance.

[DIRCEU]

Hi,
yes is possible the problem is at coil. Did you made Ivconic's way ?

100-105 is a good recipe for it... the large DD one.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi MAX!

Do you remember how many turns have in 28DD IVCONIC's coil ???

Regards

DIRCEU

[Max]

MAX,are you sampling at zero-crossing?

Hi,
yes, at zero crossing. About your coil I think could be good for testing, but if you wanna more depth you must realize something in the 10'' range (25cm or more like the Ivconic's 27.5cm DD we are talking about).

About resistance... I found Ivconic's values about right for my wire and so about the same he wrote. Also I got exactly same frequency at TX when tight the wire on coils using tape etc.

I found just some inductance values a bit different but this maybe depends on the way Ivconic measured inductance there... anyway , inductance is not so important if you already know number of turns required to match frequency and actually match it.

So I think your wire could be smaller than 0.25mm, maybe is less. Could happen sometimes that varnish is thicker than expected and so total diameter is compatible with expected value but real diameter of bare wire is less.

When wire is less in diameter it usually responds more of tightening it... so giving a very sharp loss of frequency when tight. With right wire you get lower freq but just few respect to untightened wire.

I suggest you try the "bayer" method suggested by Ivconic to clean some wire and measure right diameter on it with a micrometer if possible.

You can also use 0.30mm wire if you have but taking care on frequency you get (must be about the same... few hundreds Hz more than 0.25... so say 14.7-15Khz).

Kind regards,
Max

[zzy]

sampling

MAX,are you sampling at zero-crossing?

[zzy]

Hi,
yes is possible the problem is at coil. Did you made Ivconic's way ?

100-105 is a good recipe for it... the large DD one.

Kind regards,
Max

I have no such big housing,so i can't use Ivconic's coil.
my DD coil,23.5cm form,TX 110 turns,RX 118 turns.wire is0.25mm (0.27mm with varnish).

how do you think my coil?


i had made Ivconic's coil,but i found the resistance is more bigger than Ivconic's.other's is same as Ivconic's. Is my wire not good?