Delta Pulse

[detectoman]

en español:
hola hermano geo y ivconic expertos en la construccion, jejeejje y no es ironia, en verdad se que animo y inteligencia le ponen a estas complejidades , y los felicito a ustedes y a todos los del foro, ok el comentario es este:

yo no entiendo porque los detectores de dos cajas estan siendo relegados,o casi obsoletos, si sabemos que por ejemplo un delta pulse conlleva mucho trabajo y complejidad para su construccion, y vemos, que el circuito del delta pulse esta lleno de circuitos integrados, y precisa de mediciones con osciloscopios ,puestas a punto, mucha minuciosidad, y un dos caja logra lo mismo con solo un simple ic y tres transistores y dos bobinas, un delta por ejemplo es mas dificil de transportarse, es mas delicado en sus piezas, y un dos cajas se transporta y guarda rapidamente y transporta, en forma de maleta, yo mismo he costruido un detector dos cajas sin tener mucho conocimiento de electronica , lo hice sin circuito impreso , solo con una tableta perforada comercial, este detector dos cajas, funciona igual casi en cualquier tipo de terreno, precisa solo de dos baterias 9 volts, se le pueden hacer muchas modificaciones, las baterias acidas con las que lo manejo de las cuales casi no las consume, etc, asi que agradecere que por favor me digan ustedes que tienen mas experiencia en deteccion, el porque de su preferencia de un pi a uno de dos cajas sencillamente mas economico, y mas resistente
ok estamos platicando
les mando saludos y les reconozco sus trabajos, y su experiencia
desde mexico detectoman

[detectoman]

hi geo and ivconic, one question for yours, is free the delta pulse of problems reject of ground?
or this artefact have problem, say me , what disadvanyages have the delta pulse? because is it is perhaps the delta superior to one efficient and simple circuit two boxes? because this types of machine are preferred to the two box, prefered to one versatile and simple function of two boxes operation ? I have the news of detector of two boxes that is not affected by the effect of desbalance of earth, waves or lines, this deep too 3 meters in soil , have delta pulse problems whit statics or waves of city, what advantages have these detector? what is the applications in detection of delta? only for he is single to be used to the outside in mounts, to opened field, or it is possible to be used in congested cities and floods of señales?agradecere but information about the delta, I it truth do not go to build these big complexity,of ics and circuit, prefer to construct simple two boxes that have sufficient advantages and that is not influenced by papers of single aluminum and detect only big masses, I appreciate its attention we are platicando kindly detectoman thanks

[ivconic]

o.k.


What are you gonna do there ???
Today i wound 30 wind. on 20 cm , o.4mm wire...Well, i am not thrill with it
but it can detect 2cm coin on 28-29cm...almost done.What to say?
What ever result i get, always want some more..I keep thinking is it possible
to do 20cm coil to detect 2 cm coin over 35cm!? Only one detector i saw can
do that...Relic Hawk...coin is made from mixture of Cu and brass...Hard to test
with! O.K. when you try it please post results here.
Regards

[Geo]

Hi Ivconic.
I calculated the inductance with Gary's formula. BUT i agree that the better calculating is the experiment. If the 75 cm coil detects a 2 cm coin at 25 cm then i believe that is a very good coil.When i will have time i will try one. Yesterday i made a 10 in coil with 0.5mm and 38 turns but i had not the time to try it. Maybe today or tommorow . if not then the other week because i will travel until ALBANIA for 5 days (not for treasure hunting ha..ha).When i will have results i will write you.
Best Regards

[ivconic]

DP vs PS


Hi Geo!
I did not try any other number of windings. It was a wild guess with 18 turns and it
worked satisfactory. I am not sure that it is analog to count no.of turns by diammeter of
coil. It must be some other factor for calculating number of turns. I noticed that it is
not the rule,since i made over 50 diff. coils for PI's in last years. For large coils it is
usually from 14 to 20 turns, but again it is not a rule, i am not sure 100%.
All depends of wire gauge and current also of freq. too. I am not quite competent to explain
that proper.75 cm coil is detecting 2 cm coin from 25-28cm distance....poor! But i made
large coil with idea only to detect larger object in higher depths. The dumper resistor is
1 k and it will stay as it is in all my experiments. The frequency is adjusted to 398 Hz and
i did not adjusted it any more. From time to time i test it with freq. meter just to be sure
that oscil. is working stabile with no drifts. And it is working very stabile.
The inductance tell's me not to much. I am used to experiment "in vivo". Why? Simply,i noticed
many times that theory "drifts" from real life. Theory is just very important starting point, but
final results you'll get only by "sweat". Why is that so? Well, i am here in my place using my
components(condensers,resistors,spare parts...etc) and respecting schematic, at the end i gain
some results, you in your place using your components respecting the same schematic gain quite
different results !? There is a lot of differences in the material we used, in Cul wire....in
instruments we are using to measure...etc.etc.. Even from the same manufacturer you can find
the same type of component but with quite different performances.That's why i do respect theory but
mostly rely on my own experience. 75cm coil worked nice from the begining and i am satisfied with
it. I already wraped it in plastic and glued it hard.It is difficult for me now to bargain about
more or less windings. If i find some more of "hoola hop"-s i can experiment further.In that case
i'll report here to you the results. 42cm coil did not worked from the first try. I made 3-4 coils
on 42 cm holder and all worked very poor, cose i respected theory about less windings. At the end
i left that theory and put 35 windings on it and it is working good now. It might work even better
but right now i am tired of making any more large coils. Next step is to make a small coil, only for
coins. I am planing to use some 20cm former and wound from 24 to 45 windings, wire from 0.2 to 0.5mm
and test it.When i gain result that it can detect 2cm coin over 30cm i'll stop.It will be enough
for my needs.I think it is possible, what do you think?
I have read almost all from Eric Foster's works, from the others too. I learned much from them.
It is very,very good starting point to understand main principles of PI detectors. But the best
results i gained yet from my own experimenting.It was not big difference from what that people
claimed, but it were some minor "drifts", by reasons i mentioned above...(working conditions,
material, measuring instruments...etc.)
SO far i made a few PI's. Some "toys" and this very good Delta Pulse. When i compare it with
Pulsestar II i can tell you one thing: in some cases it is working much better than PulsestarII !!!
Also i noticed that Pulsestar II and Delta PUlse, both are less sensitive on Cu than other materials.
Why is that so!? Pulsestar II is very sensitive on ground conditions,Delta Pulse is not!
Pilsestar II is very sensitive on that "silver" Al paper from cigarettes and chocolate wrapped in,
Delta Pulse is not !? But it is very sensitive on some Al object, also on Ag object too!
For example, delta pulse can detect Ag knife over 40cm, Pilsestar II over 45cm...
The main advantage for Delta pulse, for me, is that i can further affect on it by extra adjustments
and further improvements, on Pulsestar II i can not! It is very expensive toy, and those two PIC's
are protected, so any further "playing" with it can bust it.Also it has smt pcb, sprayed with
some resin, and it will be high risky to try to solder something more on it.
If Delta Pulse show simillar results on the field than i guess PulsestarII will be on sale, very
soon!!!
O.K. Geo that was all for now. If you have time, you may post some coil specifications you made
it and some extra test too.
Keep in touch..
Best regards!!!

[Geo]

Hi Ivcinic again. I do a calculate for your coils and something do not like at me.
If the calculations are good then the 42 cm (16.8 in) coil has an inductance of about 1mH and the 75 cm coil (29.3 in) has an inductance about 500 uH. What are you say? Who is the better inductance for DeltaPulse? Can you add some turns at the 75 cm coil to see how it work?

Regards

[Geo]

I busted out my impendance meter a few months ago, so i can not tell you that, but it has 35 windings, 0.7mm Cul wire...
One more thing....yesterday i made another coil, on "hoola hop" toy with diamm. 75cm (round shape) i made 18 windings, 1mm wire, 4.4 ohms, and it is working crazy!!! That paint can(1 liter) it can detetct over 140cm, i did'nt test other objects cose it was performed inside my workshop and coil is detecting almost everything from every directions!!!I had to lower the gain at the minimum to perform that test with the can,otherwise it "beep"-ing all the time.Geo, my friend thank's and regards!!!

Hi Ivconic. At First congratulation for the very good coil. Did you tried the 75 cm coil with less turns? If required 18 turns then at 25 cm coil require at least 40 turns. With 75 cm coil can you detect a 2..3 cm coin? If yes then it is a big coil for small and for big objects. The dumping resistor was 2k2 or 1Kohm?
If you put the frequency at 100 hz then at who distance can you detect the 1 litre can?
Thanks a lot
Regerds

[ivconic]

Large coil

75cm hhop coil...

[ivconic]

Geo, hi !


I busted out my impendance meter a few months ago, so i can not tell you that, but it has 35 windings, 0.7mm Cul wire...
One more thing....yesterday i made another coil, on "hoola hop" toy with diamm. 75cm (round shape) i made 18 windings, 1mm wire, 4.4 ohms, and it is working crazy!!! That paint can(1 liter) it can detetct over 140cm, i did'nt test other objects cose it was performed inside my workshop and coil is detecting almost everything from every directions!!!I had to lower the gain at the minimum to perform that test with the can,otherwise it "beep"-ing all the time.I still can not
test it outdoor cose i did'nt put it in the box yet. But the "reset" knob is working
perfect and once you push it device is calming at once.
Thanks for those tips.I am gonna try a.s.a.p. and report here.
I just do not know about increasing the gain, is it safe now with this performances already? And what about power consumption.It will increase also.
But anyway i'll try it...
Geo, my friend thank's and regards!!!

[Geo]

Nobody interested yet?
I replaced dumper 2k2 with 1k/1w just for testing.Results are even better for 5-10% almost. Instead all TL062 i put TL072,instead LF357 i put LF356(simply i do not have those) and all works fine.Power consumption is:
without detection 70ma
with full detection 110ma
Results:

1l paint can .....over 90cm
pc case ..........over 140cm
1cm coin..........28cm
2cm coin..........35cm

all test in the air, of course.....i am waiting to buy a suitable case,to pack
device in it amd than go outdoor and test it again...
bue!

Hi Ivconic. This time i am very busy so i can not answer to you or to do experiment with my XR71. The second results are good and better than mine. If you have free time you can do some experiments and to tell the results.
1. Change R21 with 200k to increase the gain 4 times.
2. Change R17 with 270k to increase the gain 2.25 times.
3. With an extra pcb you can change LF357 (or 356) and connect a 5534 with current offset and larger R17 (1Mohm is ok).
If all changes work then the DP will be a very very sensitive detector.
Btw who is the inductance of the 42 cm coil?

regards

[ivconic]

No echoes yet...


Nobody interested yet?
I replaced dumper 2k2 with 1k/1w just for testing.Results are even better for 5-10% almost. Instead all TL062 i put TL072,instead LF357 i put LF356(simply i do not have those) and all works fine.Power consumption is:
without detection 70ma
with full detection 110ma
Results:

1l paint can .....over 90cm
pc case ..........over 140cm
1cm coin..........28cm
2cm coin..........35cm

all test in the air, of course.....i am waiting to buy a suitable case,to pack
device in it amd than go outdoor and test it again...
bue!

[ivconic]

HI


Hi KT315,
I made delta pulse 4-5 years ago and it didn't work at all. These days
i made it again, respecting your hints and it is working just fine!
Concerning all mentioned here i found out that i miss connection
between 2.pin and 6. pin on the NE555. I guess that was the main reason
it didn't work in the past. Now it is working. I made up a 42 cm coil,
with 35 windings, 0.7 wire gauge. Resistance of a coil is 7,1 ohm.
I noticed that under the 4,5 ohm, my IRF640 is getting hot, very hot!
I replaced it with IRF730 and it is much better now. IRF730 is cool on
5, 6, and 7,1 ohm's. I made a several different coils, with diff. sizes,
diff.number of windings and resistances. But this 42 cm coil is working
better than others. I tried mentioned coil on 20cm with 30 windings 0.35mm
wire, but IRF is hot and detection is very poor. I simply can not beleive
that anybody gained mentioned results with this coil. The dumper resistor is
2K2. When replaced with 1K, the same thing!!!
One more thing, i can adjust freq. from 115 Hz up to 650 Hz. The best results
are on 398 Hz, so far.
Now results:
1l paint can ..... 85cm
PC case...........130cm
1cm coin.......... 22cm
2cm coin.......... 27cm
kitchen knife..... 42cm
etc.
I didn't try on cola can...these days i'll find some and try it.
But you mentioned some 70cm on cola can.According to that i think
that your dp is working much better than mine!?WIth which coil?
What is the catch?
If you can help me on that...I might made some mistake...
The 45cm Pulstar II coil resistance is 1.9 ohm. If i connect it on
my Delta Pulse, i guess IRF will blow in a minute! Can you explain me
can I readjust something in DP and connect lower resistance coils on it?
regards!
P.S.
I like this DP, it is very stabile and looks pretty.
But there is no extra tone. When detection is on, you can hear nice
tone which pitching up as you put object closer to coil.But when you
remove object, tone decay at once. I would like some extra tone or even
some kind of weak noise, as i used to hear on Pulsestar II.This is because
sometimes i can pass over object faster and not detect it at all!
Is there any chance to achieve that?

[okantex]

sorry I forget to add problem.

it is that soldering this units legs on front side of board.they kiss board well that I can not solder it.

[okantex]

Hi Kt315

I tried to build pcb for delta.but it was full of cracks and cuts.
I wonder about treiti's board.is it made by two sided copper board or with another tecnique.first picture looks like made by electrolitic dyes.
and second problem was mounting (sockets,legs ...what do we call the part that we put under IC s.to protect them from soldering heat.

[Geo]

Thanks Geo!

Can You tell me, in Delta Pulse schematic, transistor T8, it must be n-p-n or p-n-p.I see XR71 schematic and there it was p-n-p.

Thanks

Yes (npn). This is a small difference between Delta and XR71. XR71 use TL072 at D5 (IC5).