Induction Balance Stuff - Single/Multi Frequency Response, GB, Disc, Measurements, Ideas, Fun, etc.

[Aziz]

Hi all,

I have made a PDF-Table on LCR-Measurement with AI (using python code).
It sums up the effects occuring in low / high frequency when using an LCR-Meter for coils.
(Note: I don't know, whether the AI is halucination or lying.)

[Aziz]

Hi all,

I will show you some LCR-Meter measured parameters for 3 different coils soon. This is quite interesting to interpret the occuring effects and "wrong" measurements.
The ribbon cable coil, standard copper litz wire (it's not a HF-Litz) and a true HF-Litz wire coil.

My ribbon cable coil:
I will rewind the coil using one or two paper stripes between the coil windings to minimize the proximity and capacitive effects a bit later.
And I can also use the coil in low frequency mode 5 - 10 kHz to minimize the high frequency effects too. It can still be operated as a nice mono coil.

For real high performance coils, I have to buy 50 m true HF-Litz wire yet.

My ordered NP0/C0G capacitors will arrive tomorrow.
Aziz

[Aziz]

Hi all,

this is funny. The Google AI can interpret and analyse the coil measurements data stored in an Excel file (as .csv text file).
I will make a nice Excel-file with all the measured coil parameters and let the AI analyse the coil for me.

The AI is saying, that my ribbon coil is still just fine!
Aziz

[Aziz]

Hi all,

I have made the 3 air core coil analysis by using Claude Code.
I'll put the coil data files, AI prompt and the output of the analysis.

This is really interesting.
Aziz

[Aziz]

Google AI summary says:

All three coils are highly imperfect.
Coil 2 (HF-Litz) provides the best magnetic performance up to (100 kHz) due to its stable AC resistance, but is bottlenecked by its tight bundle topology.
Coil 1 achieves a deceptive peak Q due to its spiral geometry reducing proximity effects, but will fail rapidly at higher frequencies due to severe PVC dielectric absorption.
Coil 3 is fundamentally flawed for high-frequency use due to its uninsulated strands.

The AI analysis is really very good.

[Aziz]

Hi all,

I have to find my old active j-fet op-amp buffer LCR-meter board for Sound card LCR measurements. Or I have to build a new one.
This is absolutely required to measure D, Q, ESR more accurately. My PeakTech 2170 LCR meter is not accurate enough.
The NP0 capacitors have not yet arrived. Waiting, waiting..

[Aziz]

The shipping company is saying:

Due to recent adverse weather conditions and the resulting backlogs, there may be delays in the delivery of your shipment(s). We ask for your understanding.

Anyway, I can't find my other LCR measurement breadboard anymore.

So I have to build a new version.
But I have found an OPA2134 (dual j-fet op-amp) in my box, which should do a good job for the voltage buffers.

[Aziz]

Hi all,

I have added j-fet buffers to the LCR breadboard. It is using a very simple rail-splitter for power supply. It works.
I can measure D, Q, ESR much more accurate now.
It is still critical for low value capacitors (< 1nF) : This breadboard is not convenient to achieve more accuracy for D, Q and ESR measurements.

[Aziz]

Hi all,

my NP0/C0G capacitors came just.

The 0603 SMD variants are too small to handle! (fkn tiny!)
0805 is ok, no problems.
1206 is easy.

[Aziz]

Hi all,

I am very happy to have NG0/C0G capacitors now and they are really promising to realise the magic High-Q mono coil VLF with built-in capacitors in the coil.
I have to sort out my C0G capacitors yet. Part number does not specify the parts value and voltage rating.
I have measures a few and there Q is >2000.

And I have to improve the sound card LCR measurement further. It's accuracy for Q, D and ESR suffers for low value capacitors.
The LCR calibration data is affected by noise. I have to upgrade the LCR software.

The ribbon mono coil must be rewinded of course. I need a distance spacer (0.5 - 1.0 mm thick) between the windings.
Paper is not convenient as it contains or gets moisture and water is highly polar, which will cause heavy losses.
Adhesive tapes may contain polar chemicals on the adhesive film, which will cause also heavy losses.
If I don't find the right distance spacer, I have to cut thin XPS stripes.

It will take some time and I don't have much.
Aziz

[Flatline]

OMG I FOUND MY PEOPLE! I'm building an android extremely low latency app that receives gpx4500 signal, alerts user to all sorts of customised audio "anomalies" is able to analyse multiple sweeps across a target and display a dynamic target confidence level.

It also plots a heat map of the users path taken. Can be configured to display/overlay approximated coil sweep coverage / audio anomaly detections / estimated EMI/Ground Noise.

If phone mounted on detector shaft , can be configured to monitor coil angle and provides live feedback to user
.
Also logs the amount of sweeps (utilises hardware accelerometer/gyro).

The scope creep has been insane , I just can't help myself.

I NEED DATA! I'm about to start integrating Machine learning (probably going down route of convoluted neural network). I just need trustworthy gpx4500 mono coil recorded audio signals with target details (approx depth, surface area, weight, type - the more the better but bare minimum is audio signal + target type + weight + estimation of depth).

Think of it as "Digital ears". It'll be releasing it free at some point, though really need some legit people to critique and **** on orcas hard as they possibly can (been in IT testing field past 15 years so you'll only be turning me on by finding any sort of flaw). For now it's flaws in my logic , strategy, the entire damn thing could be a pointless waste of time and I've been too deluded to realise. I'm a king of random posts placed in random threads - msg me if anyone has any sort of interest in this proof of concept.

(Might take me a couple of weeks to get back to y'all)

[Aziz]

Hi Flatline,

OMG I FOUND MY PEOPLE! I'm building an android extremely low latency app that receives gpx4500 signal, alerts user to all sorts of customised audio "anomalies" is able to analyse multiple sweeps across a target and display a dynamic target confidence level.

It also plots a heat map of the users path taken. Can be configured to display/overlay approximated coil sweep coverage / audio anomaly detections / estimated EMI/Ground Noise.

If phone mounted on detector shaft , can be configured to monitor coil angle and provides live feedback to user
.
Also logs the amount of sweeps (utilises hardware accelerometer/gyro).

The scope creep has been insane , I just can't help myself.

I NEED DATA! I'm about to start integrating Machine learning (probably going down route of convoluted neural network). I just need trustworthy gpx4500 mono coil recorded audio signals with target details (approx depth, surface area, weight, type - the more the better but bare minimum is audio signal + target type + weight + estimation of depth).

Think of it as "Digital ears". It'll be releasing it free at some point, though really need some legit people to critique and **** on orcas hard as they possibly can (been in IT testing field past 15 years so you'll only be turning me on by finding any sort of flaw). For now it's flaws in my logic , strategy, the entire damn thing could be a pointless waste of time and I've been too deluded to realise. I'm a king of random posts placed in random threads - msg me if anyone has any sort of interest in this proof of concept.

(Might take me a couple of weeks to get back to y'all)

welcome to the forum. I am looking forward to hear more of your project and how it is progressing.
Post processing detector signal hasn't been done yet.
I am also familiar with neural networks.

Cheers,
Aziz

[Aziz]

Hi all,

I haven't found any convenient distance spacer stripes for my ribbon mono coil yet.
This frustration has been ended up with topping McGyver.

So I have built yet another precision XPS cutter system with thin copper wire for hot wire cutting. The cutting process optimization took a while.
I have now enough 1 mm thick and 13 mm wide XPS distance spacer stripes. Cut from a 5 mm thick XPS sheet.

The ribbon mono coil will be rewinded soon. I hope, there is enough wire for 20 + 10 turns. The distance spacer eats more wire length.
Aziz

[Aziz]

This is my XPS cutter system Version 2.
I had to modify my old car battery charger. I have wound additional secondary coil windings to the power transformer. 1 Vrms and 3 Vrms AC power.
The 1 Vrms winding worked well. 3 Vrms was to much and the cutting wire corroded and ripped off quickly.
Power lines are kept very low resistance (thick wire). So the total energy will be dissipated in the thin cutting wire. No power resistors were used.
If you don't have constantan wire (heating wire), this version works very well.
The thin tinned cutting wire is out of a small piece of single strand AWG 28 ribbon cable.

Don't invent the wheel once again. This precision XPS cutting system works very well.
It is kind of MacGyver invention.
Aziz

[Aziz]

Hi all,

I have re-wound the ribbon mono coil with 1 mm XPS stripes as a distance spacer (20 + 10 + 2 turns = 32 total). Measured all the parameters with the LCR meter and sent the data to Claude Code AI. See the attached updated report (PDF).

It slightly decreases the proximity effect.

We have to talk about the skin and proximity effects on pulse induction (PI) coils.
Why the PI coil isn't that much critical compared to the continious wave (CW) VLF coil.

Aziz