TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[DIRCEU]

Hi Dirceu,
the noise is from different parts but expecially from fets commutation at sincronous demodulator. That doesn't depends of fet kind... and change few if you use TIS75 or BF245 or other kind: commutations are always there and can create enough noise to propagate by tracks.

I suppose you use original board with notch section (same of dutch project in zip file at page1): this worked ok for me but sometimes I can see erratic too and probably components aid the noise transportations like some kind of mylar caps I've used.

I saw that PaulPanzer made instead a big ground plane on his TGS project board (this is the german group) : this could solve some of these problems avoiding too much crosstalks between pcb tracks.

I made also the TGS-light using Vladimir design and got similar problems you report ... noise due to crosstalks... but this is not cause Vladimir made it wrong: the board is really cool and small but is the absence of groundplane that make things appear more bad that you can expect.

I'm sure that if I add a big groundplane to TGS-light board I will eliminate big part of noise from circuit! But sure I have no time for this... at least at now.

Your frequency is too low: you need something around 14.5Khz... some hundred Hz more is better for me... at least on my detectors.

I will also check very well the TL op amps if any or the LM308s (I posted months ago that I've purchased ****erfeit parts sold me as original lm308 that aren't original... and maybe relabeled common op amps , very noise indeed).

The crazy noise is sometimes also product of the last 2 comparators... you can balance adding some inertia to their inputs (like 1-4.7nF ceramic caps) but do this just if you notice problem is there. Also... 100nF caps on supply rail of critical op amps and comparators could give advantages on stability.

Problem is that the TGS tweaking is really complex stuff and each built clone is different from the others for obvious reasons (components, soldering, PCB manifacturing, cleaning strategy, coil assembly used etc etc) so just the owner can find ultimate solution... and we can just exchange hints and tips but you will actually made it better then.

Best regards,
Max

Many thanks MAX.

I agree at all.
I'm was thinking in to minimize this problems with separation cages like at HF devices for example: TV tunners.
Is very important for me to partake this forum, because I have learned much more than others sources.

Thanks again! MAX.

Regards

DIRCEU.

[Max]

Hi MAX!


I am working in my TGS again.
The sound level is very good but I have problem with noise erratic discharges.
I changed all BF 245C by TIS 75 and all others components are originals.
It run at 13.77 KHz. Coils 28 DD Rx 7.4 mH an Tx 6.7mH.
GEB act but the noise persist.
With scope (kenwood dual trace 20mHz) I checked many points, but the signal noise are in every where.
When the coils are perfectly nulled the noise is there (audio) when nulled out it is there too (scope probe only. No audio).

The question is: where the noise is generate if is in all points??
I suspect which the problem is arround of 2N2907 and 2N2222; CD4024 or negative switching power suply.
I don't know. May be the best solution for it is to build other PCB.

MAX ! if you want help me ...very good. If no... I understand. The time is short for me too.

Thanks in advance.

DIRCEU

Hi Dirceu,
the noise is from different parts but expecially from fets commutation at sincronous demodulator. That doesn't depends of fet kind... and change few if you use TIS75 or BF245 or other kind: commutations are always there and can create enough noise to propagate by tracks.

I suppose you use original board with notch section (same of dutch project in zip file at page1): this worked ok for me but sometimes I can see erratic too and probably components aid the noise transportations like some kind of mylar caps I've used.

I saw that PaulPanzer made instead a big ground plane on his TGS project board (this is the german group) : this could solve some of these problems avoiding too much crosstalks between pcb tracks.

I made also the TGS-light using Vladimir design and got similar problems you report ... noise due to crosstalks... but this is not cause Vladimir made it wrong: the board is really cool and small but is the absence of groundplane that make things appear more bad that you can expect.

I'm sure that if I add a big groundplane to TGS-light board I will eliminate big part of noise from circuit! But sure I have no time for this... at least at now.

Your frequency is too low: you need something around 14.5Khz... some hundred Hz more is better for me... at least on my detectors.

I will also check very well the TL op amps if any or the LM308s (I posted months ago that I've purchased ****erfeit parts sold me as original lm308 that aren't original... and maybe relabeled common op amps , very noise indeed).

The crazy noise is sometimes also product of the last 2 comparators... you can balance adding some inertia to their inputs (like 1-4.7nF ceramic caps) but do this just if you notice problem is there. Also... 100nF caps on supply rail of critical op amps and comparators could give advantages on stability.

Problem is that the TGS tweaking is really complex stuff and each built clone is different from the others for obvious reasons (components, soldering, PCB manifacturing, cleaning strategy, coil assembly used etc etc) so just the owner can find ultimate solution... and we can just exchange hints and tips but you will actually made it better then.

Best regards,
Max

[Fred]

Hi,

I am currently building TGS and have question on cable. I see wiring (Ivconic) showing 3 conductor sheilded cable. But the third conductor is attached to ground/sheild. Can I just use 2 conductor sheilded cable and attach the sheild to RX return?

Also which coil in DD should be closer to target (underneth the other coil) TX or RX?

Thanks,

Molzar

Hi,
I am no specialist of TGS, but:
-No , you should really use 3 cables.
-The RX coil should be the closer to ground, but that make almost no diference ...

Regards,
fred.

Coil cables

Hi,

I am currently building TGS and have question on cable. I see wiring (Ivconic) showing 3 conductor sheilded cable. But the third conductor is attached to ground/sheild. Can I just use 2 conductor sheilded cable and attach the sheild to RX return?

Also which coil in DD should be closer to target (underneth the other coil) TX or RX?

Thanks,

Molzar

[DIRCEU]

Hi,m
self oscillations are great part related to comparators there...

do you use 1Mohm resistor mod there ?

If so... and you have often instability so selfoscillations... disconnect it and leave as original.

This mod of 1Mohm is good on already stabilized/stable MDs... not if there's already instability.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi MAX!


I am working in my TGS again.
The sound level is very good but I have problem with noise erratic discharges.
I changed all BF 245C by TIS 75 and all others components are originals.
It run at 13.77 KHz. Coils 28 DD Rx 7.4 mH an Tx 6.7mH.
GEB act but the noise persist.
With scope (kenwood dual trace 20mHz) I checked many points, but the signal noise are in every where.
When the coils are perfectly nulled the noise is there (audio) when nulled out it is there too (scope probe only. No audio).

The question is: where the noise is generate if is in all points??
I suspect which the problem is arround of 2N2907 and 2N2222; CD4024 or negative switching power suply.
I don't know. May be the best solution for it is to build other PCB.

MAX ! if you want help me ...very good. If no... I understand. The time is short for me too.

Thanks in advance.

DIRCEU

[Max]

What program i can use to open this file (.dxf format)??? And were i can download

Hi,
you can use irfanview , but have to download the right plugin... look here:

http://www.irfanview.com/

Kind regards,
Max

Thank you!!!

Дуже дякую за схеми! Thank you for help me!!!

Help

What program i can use to open this file (.dxf format)??? And were i can download

Help me

At the first, excuse me for a orphography, beacouse i am from Ukraine and don't understand English language very much, maybe somebody now one-side layout to Tesoro Silver Sabre Plus??? Please write to me link from web...

[erolunall]

Hi

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13145

please look mail by leto dated 06.06.2007



regards
Erol

HELP!!!

At the first, excuse me for a orphography, beacouse i am from Ukraine and don't understand English language very much, maybe somebody now layout to Tesoro Silver Sabre Plus??? Please write to me link from web...

[erolunall]

Hello Tiktak

you can give 0.25 mm for Wire Diameter

you have to find 6340 inducance ( please look old mails about real inductance of rx and tx)

45 cm= 450 mm for radius

turn spacing =0 (zero)

you have try diferent turn giving value to number of turns to obtain İnductance (6340 or what is real L)
pressing tab every try


please select mm

Erol

[tiktak]

Hi

Hi,
Thanks.
I will try!
I still cant understand this calculator of yours but this is a start!
70 turns of 0,30mm wire.
The probleme is that I have only 0,25 now!
SO?
What should I try?
This 70 is for TX right?

[erolunall]

hi tiktak

45 cm coil is about 70 turn for 4369 inductance 0.3 mm wire

http://deepfriedneon.com/tesla_f_calchelix.html

you can try to find wich turn which diameter

give turn spacing = 0 use mm check button


Regards
Erol

[Aziz]

Best CC-coil should not compensate its magnetic field. In this case, we have only one TX-coil (Radius R3) and two RX-Coils (N1, R1, N2, R2).
Is anyone interested on experimenting with such a CC-coil? I can provide all the needed parameters.
Aziz

Hi,
here is the coil I meant:
RX-inner and TX are on the same core. 4 mm distance to mean radius.
This is not an April joke!
Aziz