TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Ultimate_Haze]

hi

Hello,
Max!
I am glad that you help,but I can find 0,20 and 0,30mm for now.What will you advice me?With 0,30mm?Wich diameter?How many turns?
Thanks
I am now just testing with 0,120 and because someone told that lower D havs a higher resistance,I try with 70 TX and 75 turns for RX.What do you think will this work?D=21cm

[Max]

Nelson, nice to here that you have better performance!
But I am londering which coil to make?
Here I see too many variants!?!?
What will you advice me?
Max,Leto and maybe ivconic when returns??!?!
To acive 22 cm in diameter finished coil size,on which size round former do you wind the coils?Or you just use D shape and wind on it?
I have 0,30mm copper wire here with varnish,what is the best coil arangement and windings turns?
In advance thanks

Hi Ultimate,
as I said before (somewhere) I've 3 working coils for my bandido, and tested them very carefully.
First is original tesoro's coil 9x8 spider.
Second is homemade concentric coplanar 8'' diameter round.
Third is homemade DD 22cm diameter coil (much like Nelson's one).

I have good performances with all of these!

9x8 and concentric round are really useful for pinpointing, really easy... and have similar behaviour on the field when you detect a target... no big differences between.

DD is another story... it gives me some (sometimes incredible) boost on depth and I could say that it gain maybe 8-10% in depth respect 9x8 I use too on the field. But pinpointing you'll do with tip of coil... not easy. Keep in mind that you lose some disc using DD coil... but really few... you need CC to get best disc (I've best with 9x8 ).

I made DD with 120turns for both tx and rx... wire is not so important... but you have to match 18-23 ohm resistance, and of course impeadance... but it's relatively easy (compared e.g. with my homemade CC 8'', that was not so easy to null). You could use 30awg wire... or 0.28mm diameter (with varnish).
What's truly important is nulling. A good nulling is a must for every tesoro clone coil... (and vlf-tr in general) cause if you can't get few mV peak-to-peak nulling you'll experience saturations, instability and loss of sens.

I suggest you making DD first cause it's easy to get it work in few time... then, if you want/have time/have wire to cut... try to make a good CC 8'' or
10''.

Best regards,
Max

[Ultimate_Haze]

hi to all

Nelson, nice to here that you have better performance!
But I am londering which coil to make?
Here I see too many variants!?!?
What will you advice me?
Max,Leto and maybe ivconic when returns??!?!
To acive 22 cm in diameter finished coil size,on which size round former do you wind the coils?Or you just use D shape and wind on it?
I have 0,30mm copper wire here with varnish,what is the best coil arangement and windings turns?
In advance thanks

[Shahab]

Hi.

I'm going to build TGS circuit...

I will post here my problems later. Please help me...

Bye.

[Qiaozhi]

Where is my errors?

Still can´t get the picture on how to calculate the coils. I had calculated with Calculate Coil program, but i got diferent values has posted.
On the picture i place on the program a calculation for a 110 mm radius coil, 0.25 mm wire and the result does not match around 6 or 6.5 mH, it gives 12.298 mH.
What i m doing wrong?
Regads
Nelson

Hi Nelson,

The Coil Calculator is designed to work for circular coils only, but the shape of the loops in the DD coil are more elliptical. As an approximation, take one of the loops and reshape it into a circle and then measure the "inner" radius. If you use this value in the calculator you will get a closer result. However, there will be an error because you will have changed the geometry of the coil. The inductance is also dependent on how tight you have bound the windings. Also - remember to use the inner radius, not the outer.

Here's my guess:
Assuming the loop circumference (in elliptical form) can be estimated as (pi * r) + (2 * r) for the circular coil, then r = c / (2 * pi) will yield the radius needed for the calculator.
This gives a radius for the loop (when reformed into a circle) of 90mm, which results in an inductance of 9.6mH. Changing the number of turns to 120 gives 6.2mH.
If you try reshaping the coil and then measure the real inductance, you can probably come up with a fudge factor that will make the calculator more useful for this shape of coil.

Hope this helps.

[tiktak]

!

Thank you very much max.
I am glad that here are people that help on begginers!
Thats very nice.....
I am agree that this is a very good design indeed.
I still working on it almost ready.
I dont have much time lately to finish and test this.

[Max]

Thanks nakky for reply!
But I still can't understand please explain!
hat phone?

Hi tiktak,
Ivconic maked a really good work on this PCB and version of GSabre.
It's intended to host a normal speaker and headphones socket too.
As in bought detectors! Nice.

I'm planning to make it too... soon, but have to find some time!

really simple... look at schematic... you'll see speaker 16ohm, right ?
That means just a small lo-imp speaker to be mounted inside the box.

Ok, R point is just connected to resistor 150ohm that goes to gnd.
You could use it to drive e.g. normal headphones connecting both channels to R point and P point.
Just use P, Q points as in picture for suitable (larger) speakers directly.

Meaning of having 150ohm in series with your phones is adjusting output impeadance to suitable value and also reducing audio volume... You could leave out 150ohm resistor using e.g. hi-imp headphones (a quality set of, with volume control(s))... but is your choice.

Better if you wire a jack-socket on panel and then have internal speaker normally connected to P-Q point... and then inserting phones jack disconnect internal speaker and connect phones to R-P point as described.

Very easy. Very useful e.g. if you need to work on noisy fields... and you need just headphone.

I've same stuff on bandido... think that this is A MUST on good (also homemade) detectors having double sound source, int. speaker and (optional) phones. Of course you could leave socket out... wire speaker directly... but I suggest you mount speaker socket and use headphones!

Best regards,
Max

[tiktak]

hi,

Thanks nakky for reply!
But I still can't understand please explain!
hat phone?

[nakky]

R

R= HP=hat phone

[tiktak]

hi

What should I connect to this point marked with R on tihis picture?
Tks
Excelent picture!Thats how the things should be done!So it can be clear for all
at first look!

[nelson]

Where is my errors?

Still can´t get the picture on how to calculate the coils. I had calculated with Calculate Coil program, but i got diferent values has posted.
On the picture i place on the program a calculation for a 110 mm radius coil, 0.25 mm wire and the result does not match around 6 or 6.5 mH, it gives 12.298 mH.
What i m doing wrong?
Regads
Nelson

Max: "Of course not minelab stuff...OK...but really good stuff.."
Max....i just adore Minelab...any Minelab! But have to admit that
some Tesoro's models are reached Minelab's performances.
After making first Golden Sabre and experimenting with it....I dare
to say that it is much better than Musketeer !!! This is maybe very
subjective so sorry if some of you disagere.
I also had Relic Hawk, i thought it can't be better! The very best of
VLF's i have been seen so far. My closest friend have Sovereign GT,another
friend have X-Terra 70, another have Explorer II SE.....
I took them all with me on real field and put under various tests...
My experiences (also subjective) are not so good!
X-Terra 70 dissapointed me much! Explorer also ! Sovereign GT is much
better, very deep, although not so easy to handle. It will need to much
practice to work with it good. But, no one beat Relic Hawk! Not even close!
So i wonder myself; where is progress! Relic Hawk is very old model!
What guys from Minelab did last 10 years!? "Rolling thumbs" ???
Except new design,LCD,less weight....i see no improvements....
Sorry, this is also my subjective opinion. Do not take it 100%.
About Golden Sabre; i am using small coils with it...20-24cm diamm. mostly.
What should be if i make 35cm coil for it? Would it beat Relic Hawk???
I just have to try and see.
G.Sabre have such good discrimination, i havent see better on any other
machine! Can discriminate iron (small or big) absolutelly! Also foil.
Of course this mostly depends on coil, i put enormous effort to adjust
and perfectise my coils as better as my conditions (amateur) allowed me...
Depth is also great!
RObert have Garrett GTI 2500 (I sold it to him few years ago) and G.Sabre
showed greater depth even from GTI 2500!!! Not to mention disc. which is
Garrett's main drawback...
Sovereign is better than G.Sabre in some conditions, while in some is not!
Only detector which showed noticeable better performances than G.Sabre is
White's DFX with eliptical coil. Hell of machine, although, also not so easy
to handle. To much menus...i dont like those.
Fisher 1266 turns to be a "toy" comparing to G.Sabre...CZ7 also...
Dont know about Coinstrike, havent tested it yet..Looking forward to test it.
The reason Tesoro is not very popular yet is (i think) in original Tesoro's coils.
I think those original coils are not matched as best as possible with machines.
Fact that you can use almost any coil on any machine shows that those are not
matched exactly to origin machine.
I noticed that, while experimenting with few coils i made for G.Sabre. I made
3 G.Sabres so far and 4-5 coils....Not every coil works same on every machine,
although i made identical coils? It need exdended adjustments to match coil and
machine. Some corrections arround oscillator and simillar. Those picofarads also
have to be matched better for better disc. and geb.
Also resistances arround 2907 in oscillator. R1 to R4 need a bit experimenting.
Instead R1 i put 5k trimmer, same can be applied to other resistances....
You understand what i mean? To make 2907 to radiate more power in coil....
etc.etc.
But all experiments need to be done at exact machine and exact coil. My experiences
are only mine. I guess those will not benefit you or anybody else. To many
differences between used components,tolerances, quality...So no wonder if you cant
gain same what i gained and vice-versa...
But generally Nelson should have much better results than posted!
Nelson, your detector MUST detect coin at 20cm distance...at least. And that
distance should be starting point to you to continue to adjust it for better
performances...Must be something mistaken or wrong in your setup?
Most likely it is bad nulled coil!
Make another one, but this time use thinner wire!
Try and inform us about results...
regards!

[nelson]

Hi Ivconic.
Yes you are rigth and i think the problem was my instrument. Yestarday i measure my two coils with a good LC meter and results shows that one coil is 8.9 mH and the other 10.9 mH, intead of my first measures that i made with the first instrument that gave me 5.35 mH and 6.45 mH. The diameter of each coil is 19 cms, wire 0.25 mm.
So this weekend i ll make another one, like the one you show on the scketch.

Also can you or anyone else describe the functions of:

1.-Reject and how to use it
2.-Two pots on the board
3.- How to use notch (with discrimination on or off)

Sorry for making to many questions, but is the first time that i use a detector with this functions on it, and i tryied to found a owners manual for this detector with no success.

In advance many thanks for your support or anyone interested on bulding this excellent detector.
Regards
Nelson

Nelson!? It is obvious that radius is 22cm and diammeter 11cm...? According posted sketch is on blue line...Even if jitter a bit, it would be few mm 's not few cm's....I already explained that not paying a lot attention on exact measures..All can be compensated later with nulling and adjusting ocsillator...
Have to go now!Bye!
Be back in few weeks...

[ivconic]

Buggati


Actually it is replica with VW "beatle" engine in, but the feeling is great as it was original....Real joy!
Off i go now...Tomorrow at 4 o'clock am is tarting new expedition...
Bye!

[Max]

Nelson!? It is obvious that radius is 22cm and diammeter 11cm...? According posted sketch is on blue line...Even if jitter a bit, it would be few mm 's not few cm's....I already explained that not paying a lot attention on exact measures..All can be compensated later with nulling and adjusting ocsillator...
Have to go now!Bye!
Be back in few weeks...

Hi ivconic,
nice car man! I like it too!

Have a good time (and nice hunts)!

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Obvious?


Nelson!? It is obvious that radius is 22cm and diammeter 11cm...? According posted sketch is on blue line...Even if jitter a bit, it would be few mm 's not few cm's....I already explained that not paying a lot attention on exact measures..All can be compensated later with nulling and adjusting ocsillator...
Have to go now!Bye!
Be back in few weeks...