TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Max]

Hi,
all this talking about GS tempted me...

and so here we are !

(have to find some time to make that stuff somehow!!!)

Regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
Max I have told you that this transistor were brand new from shop and I have discription on some metal case one from this shop!
But its marked as PN2222A only!Nothing else.Usualy there are some other numbers also on all parts,but on this there arent!
Any way thanks again for your advices.And ivconic help also.
Now to coil:
I have measured TX 18,7 and RX 18,9 resistance for coils.
Ivconics way.
I have played for a while and found good point!
Around 25 cm for coin!Hip-Hip-Hurey!!!!
Two coils conected to pcb without shields!
THE PROBLEME IS REALY THIS WEEK AUDIO!!
Its like pik-pik !Not good!
How were you solving this problem?I think that there must be puted some resistor or what?If so which value?Where?
See you soon!

Hi,
audio is always weak on tesoro's... trick is find some good speaker, 16 ohm would be ok... but only one that I really trust is one I've found inside an old apple computer... with other good things that I've used to make bandido II !

But yes is weak, too weak and you could lose stuff when searching on real field. So use always headphones. Belive me, I missed much stuff first time using it ... then used headphones in same place and got triple of stuff in the same time (about 2hours)! (bullets, shells, brass, copper, lead and gold too etc etc)
Another solution could be using the zahori audio , as Ivconic described somewhere in previous post, or also the Leto's solution, an audio amplifier that seems really good idea.

Best regards,
Max

[tiktak]

hi

Hi,
Max I have told you that this transistor were brand new from shop and I have discription on some metal case one from this shop!
But its marked as PN2222A only!Nothing else.Usualy there are some other numbers also on all parts,but on this there arent!
Any way thanks again for your advices.And ivconic help also.
Now to coil:
I have measured TX 18,7 and RX 18,9 resistance for coils.
Ivconics way.
I have played for a while and found good point!
Around 25 cm for coin!Hip-Hip-Hurey!!!!
Two coils conected to pcb without shields!
THE PROBLEME IS REALY THIS WEEK AUDIO!!
Its like pik-pik !Not good!
How were you solving this problem?I think that there must be puted some resistor or what?If so which value?Where?
See you soon!

[nelson]

HEY MAX AND IVCONIC, TODAY I HAVE MEASURED THE RESISTANCE OF ONE TURN FOR A 28 CMS IN DIAMETER COIL (120 TURNS TOTAL) AND GOT 0.2516 OHMS PER TURN. (28CMS BY PI= 87.96 CMS AND 87.96 CMS EQUAL 0.2516 OHMS) SO IF YOU THINK FOR A 22 CMS COIL, WIRE USED MUST BE 82.93 METERS LONG, 82.93 METERS DIVIDED BY 0.8796 CMS= 94.2814
94.2614 X 0.2516= 23.72 OHMS, VERY CLOSE TO YOUR OBTAINED VALUE MAX.
I HOPE THIS IS CORRECT. IF SO , MY PROBLEMS COME TO CLEAR.

REGARDS

NELSON

Hi Nelson,
as I've measured DD22 again, data are:

Former diameter used for one halve = 18.7cm
Outer diameter of DD coil = 21.7cm
Wire diameter/gauge 0.25mm(30AWG) measured without varnish (0.28 with varnish)
Tx turns = 120
Rx turns = 120

Tx resistance = 23.9 ohm
Rx resistance = 24.1 ohm

Tx inductance = 5.65 mH
Rx inductance = 5.76 mH

(but keep in mind that no instrument is perfect so could be minor tolerances)

What's strange in yours is that when you tight them you get too much increase. I wounded copper wire on former, then spiral wound with tape, then shield them, then another wound with tape. And that's all....
I get that data, just 0.2mH increase of inductance, respect to unshielded pair , not more.

So I think your problem is in that bigger increase.

About 28cm I don't know cause I don't use that diameters in my coils... but think ivconic's data are really good.

Best regards,
Max

[nelson]

HI MAX, YES I KNOW IS VERY STRANGE WHAT IS HAPPENIG WITH MY COILS, BUT I ALSO KNOW THAT I M DOING SOMETHING WRONG. FOR EXAMPLE FOR 28 CMS IVCONIC COILS, I HAVE FOLLOW ALL INSTRUCTION HAS IVCONIC DID, BUT WHEN I MEASURE RESISTANCE THIS ON 30.2 OHMS FOR 120 TURNS, THEN I CHEKED WITH ANOTHER ,ULTIMITER AND READING IS 30.8 OHMS, NOT TO MUCH DIFFERENCE, SO THIS IS SHOWING ME THAT RESISTANCE IS REAL. WIRE IS 0.25 MM OR 30AWG, WICH I ALSO MEASURED TO BE SHURE IT IS THE CORRECT ONE AND IS OK. FOR COIL FORMER TO MAKE THE COIL, I USED A METALIC HANGERS, SO THIS CAN BE TURN TO ALLOW YOU TO REMOVE THE COIL. I ALSO THOUGTH THAT THIS METALIC HANGERS COULD BE THE PROBLEM, SO I TOOK MY COILS AND MEASURE RESISTANCE AND INUCTANCE AWAY FROM THE FORMER AND I GOT SAME RESULTS. CONSIDERING THAT RESISTANCE WAS 30.2 OHMS, I CONTINUE MY JOB, THIS TIME BY PLACING A CORD TO IT AND I GOT 7.4 mH (FIRST READIND WAS 4.89 mH). THEN I PUT THE I GLUED THE COIL, MEASURE AGAIN AND SAME LAST RESULTS. I PUT AL FOIL, CONNECT ONE WIRE TO THE SHIELD AND FINALLY TAPED, AND I GOT NOW 30.2 OHMS OF RESISTANCE AND 10.4 mH OF INDUCTANCE.
ALL MY COILS THAT I HAVE BUILD HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.
WITH MY LAST COILS WICH IS 27.5 MM INNER DIAMETER, I MEASURED THIS AFTER IVCONIC SAID THAT HE FORGOT TO SAID THAT THE 28 CMS IS FOR INNER DIAMETER, NOT OUTER DIAMETER HAS I DID, SO MAY BE THE PROBLEM IS WITH A FEW MM THAT I HAVE LOST, BUT I REALLY DON´T THINK THIS COULD BE THE REAL CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM.
FINALLY MY 27.5 MM COILS WITH 80 AND 85 TURNS, 9.6 AND 10.4 mH AND 20.6 AND 21.3 OHMS OF RESISTANCE, WHERE NULLING AND TESTED AND RESULTS DIDN´T CONVINCE ME , 17 CMS 15 CMS FOR A 12 MM COIN.

TAKE A LOOK OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, 22 CMS COIL WITH 120 TURNS OF 0.25 MM WIRE AND FOR IVCONIC 28 CMS COIL, SAME NUMBER OF TURNS, SO WHAT IS REALLY WRONG WITH MY CALCULATIONS, I DON´T KNOW, BUT THIS IS TURNING ME OUT OF MY MIND.

ANYWAY, I LL TRY YOUR 22 CMS COIL AND SEE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING.

THE ONLY THINK I KNOW, IS THAT THE PROBLEM IS MINE, I KNOW THAT I M DOING SOMETHING WRONG AND I WILL NOT REST UNTIL I FOUND IT.

THANKS FOR BE PATIENT WITH MY EXPERIMENTS.

BEST REGARDS

NELSON

Hi Nelson,
as I've measured DD22 again, data are:

Former diameter used for one halve = 18.7cm
Outer diameter of DD coil = 21.7cm
Wire diameter/gauge 0.25mm(30AWG) measured without varnish (0.28 with varnish)
Tx turns = 120
Rx turns = 120

Tx resistance = 23.9 ohm
Rx resistance = 24.1 ohm

Tx inductance = 5.65 mH
Rx inductance = 5.76 mH

(but keep in mind that no instrument is perfect so could be minor tolerances)

What's strange in yours is that when you tight them you get too much increase. I wounded copper wire on former, then spiral wound with tape, then shield them, then another wound with tape. And that's all....
I get that data, just 0.2mH increase of inductance, respect to unshielded pair , not more.

So I think your problem is in that bigger increase.

About 28cm I don't know cause I don't use that diameters in my coils... but think ivconic's data are really good.

Best regards,
Max

[Sean_Goddard]

Have a look at this, it's AWESOME for ID'ing unkown devices!!

http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_dca55.html

[Max]

Hi Max.
Can you help me with my questions below.
Thanks

Nelson

Hi Nelson,
as I've measured DD22 again, data are:

Former diameter used for one halve = 18.7cm
Outer diameter of DD coil = 21.7cm
Wire diameter/gauge 0.25mm(30AWG) measured without varnish (0.28 with varnish)
Tx turns = 120
Rx turns = 120

Tx resistance = 23.9 ohm
Rx resistance = 24.1 ohm

Tx inductance = 5.65 mH
Rx inductance = 5.76 mH

(but keep in mind that no instrument is perfect so could be minor tolerances)

What's strange in yours is that when you tight them you get too much increase. I wounded copper wire on former, then spiral wound with tape, then shield them, then another wound with tape. And that's all....
I get that data, just 0.2mH increase of inductance, respect to unshielded pair , not more.

So I think your problem is in that bigger increase.

About 28cm I don't know cause I don't use that diameters in my coils... but think ivconic's data are really good.

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

What do you think people? It will work or not?
I'll post schematic these days....

Why waiting?
Here it is!

Hi ivconic,
I think lm339 mod would work great. I have some dubts on TL082 instead of two LM308... these dubts is related to hi-fi audio circuits experiments I've made with dual op. amps... never get good results where there dual pramp... and expecially TL0x2 series... but they aren't preamp there.
Maybe there would be ok! Think that only way to know is made a prototype.

Also you could exchange TL082 with other things (e.g. NE5532) if a few mA more is not a problem (and many other newer stuff with very low noise if you can find).

Why not!? circuit would be even smaller!

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

"..Hi ivconic,
? Is it a challenge ??? .."
No, it is not. I have ...around 50 000 different transistors here...
On photo only showed my favorites (most used)..There are 2500-3000
transistors on photo only....Who wants to challenge anyway..?

"...And IVCONIC you cant tell by first sight expecialy if someone
explain to you and you cant see with your eyes.Everyones misstakes..."
Yes, i agree! As man of honor i would not back my previous words:
"If your PN2222 is different than CBE...than send it to me by mail
i will eat it infront of the camera! I swear..."
Only, no need for you to send it. I have enough here to eat!

Max:
"PN2222 USA pinout CBE
BC2222 Europe pinout EBC
C2222 Japanese pinout BCE"
Max, this is very strange!? I am Euoropean. Never used or saw any
2222 with EBC in my life!?
My favorites (and most used) are BC... ! All of them i used so far
are CBE ???!? I swear!
Except few obsolete's, out of production now... Also "BC2222" ???
I think there is no BC2222...! I never saw it!
Or C2222...?? Or 2SC2222...never saw it!

Only transistors (small signal,TO-92) i am using, with EBC are:
S9012,S9013,S9014,S9015,S9018, MPSA13,MPSA14,2N2907....!? That's all!
But...as TikTak said: "...Everyones misstakes..."
As long as man live, he learning...Today i learned much!
Thanks a lot!

Best regards!

Hi ivconic,
"around 50 000 different transistors here" wow man ... really huge number! I Think I have something like 10000-12000 only , don't know!

"Max, this is very strange!? I am Euoropean. Never used or saw any
2222 with EBC in my life!?"
Yes, I'm European too... know that's not so easy to see but there are! Found one time also BCE stuff (C2222) in a Korean made radio. I never heard of BC2222 too... never saw any... but that indication was just to explain to TikTak how stuff works about transistor "zone" identification... BC is the common mark for low power mid-freq transistors in europe (BC547 , BC 237...), but who knows? maybe they exist for real!
Maybe there are clones of original 2n2222 or PN2222 marked in different way.

I've found many strange stuff in old asian-made devices... sometimes strange things like the C2222 I've reported... I saw it, and cannot find in any table etc and even if they arent in any catalog they exist. I think that some asian manifacturers make that devices just for related factories...manifacturers, using jap pinout...and that mark, so I think they cannot be considered as "standard devices".

Also, people here must consider using right datasheet for devices, e.g. 2N2222 (metal case) is a different thing respect to PN2222 (or MPS2222). Different pinout, different intended use (first small power rf, second as general purpose tr).... of course, internally are about the same but if you look at motorola and on-semi datasheets for both you'll note some differences.

Fact is that is maybe the widest used "general purpose" and so people think that there's always same pinout and same specs... and in some cases it's just not true.

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

PCB?

Need one good soul to draw pcb for it!

Come to think; it is not Tesoro GS anymore!
Can i patent this!?

[ivconic]

...

What do you think people? It will work or not?
I'll post schematic these days....

Why waiting?
Here it is!

[Shahab]

Hush, sorry i skipped your questions... Well, about nulling;
Best way is to use oscilloscope while nulling coils.
But not necessairly. As you said; good will and milivoltemer
would do the job just fine. Connect TX coil to oscillator.
Connect RX coil to m.v.metre...Try to achieve as less as possible
voltage at RX coil as you can get. Do not worry if you cant achieve
zero voltage. In most cases it will be impossible. It showed to me
that even up to 0.1 v coil can be useable,depends of device you are
using with it. Especially Tesoro G.Sabre is very tolerant. Very good
soluted at geb and disc stages, lets you to compensate eventual loses
from coil....Thats why i prefer G.Sabre, easy to make coil for it!
But most important thing comes after...to glue or whatever, coils in
housing, so good and stiff to eleminate any eventual movements later.
Also should stuff housing with some lightly mass....I do not want to
open this subject here, already all explained in Coils forums....
Nelson, best way to check is to use IC sockets anywhere you want to
experiment with different ic's. You are in good position to see
"in vivo" and experience "live" any differences among ic's.
Just pay attention on pin assignments...Yes, you may try LM1458 instead
LF353 for example....or TL082... buyt just for comparsions...
I am not satisfied with LM1458....but TL082 works almost good as LF353?
Now back to schematic; Yes! Again i made mistake! I omited those 2 resistors!
Damn! How it is possible? I guess it was in rush...not so good with software
for schematics...Thanks Porkluvr a lot again!
OK, now, for the last time, there is absolute correct and accurate schematic!
Yes, KT315, you are right. Adding parallel 1M resistor improved audio.
Now it is loud, and no decays while detected item estranged slowly from coil!
But i got another idea! I added switch, so we can have extra mode!
Without 1M resistor included in circuitry audio level is directly dependable
of signal strenght! There is very noticeable decay dependable of relative
movements of detected item. For example; as you removing slowly coin away
from coil surface, inch by inch, audio become more weak, decays respecting
reach/range. With 1m included, audio remains unchanged.
This can be very usefull on coinshooting! First we detect coin in Decay OFF
mode (loud and clear). Than switch Decay On and try to locate coin again.
Audio level can help us to distinguish about size and depth of detected item!
Very usefull...isnt it!
Regards!

I don't know muchthings about TGS circuit...

But please wait a moment...

I think there are some ways to find best values for L & C in receiver

part.Before working with Ivconic method for nulling the coils you can do

these steps:

1.After you control power part connect TX coil to the transmitter part.

2.parallel 15nf capacitor and 1Kohm resistor and mili voltmeter to the RX

coil.

3.Put Rx coil near TX coil then increase & decrease 15nf capacitor (per step

100p or 1n) until you have highest voltage.

4.Now work with Ivconic method for nulling coils.

5.don't forget that put this new capacitor where 15n was in receiver part.


Of course you can do these steps for L in receiver part but it's easer for

15n capacitor.

[Shahab]

Hi all

Hi Ivconic, well all must be taken with pacience and care.
We are all here experimenters hobbiest, so i take it like that. Sharing our expirencies is the only way to success and increment knolegment. Some of us can do good jobs, some others can´t do success without been suported by good people like you and other good fellows here. But to get helped, like me, you must do jobs, bulding and experimenting MD´s. I don´t agree with people that only whant to get information from us and no experimentacion or bulding any detector at all. In resume, no contribution at all. I m here to meet good people that likes same thinks like me, buldind detector, test it and have a good time searching for good stuff from the ground, etc, etc, etc.

About your 28 cms coil, mine has 27.5 cms inner diameter and now i got for TX 85 turns, 21.6 ohms of resistance and 7.8 mH. So , i hope this week to connect and try results.
May be the reazon of my wrong results is the diameter. My coil, was wound on a 28 cms diameter form, not 26.8 cms, so may be this is the problem.
Ivconic, i know that there are so many people like me, that are asking so many things about GS and the coils, but has i said, we need to learn from the master of GS ( Ivconic). You are the one that has more experimentation on this MD. Also Max is a good man that has good results with this MD and also he is a good fellow, helping us with our habbie.
Finally, i have to said that my experiencies will always be posted here to help others with it, so Ivconic and Max, please be patience that students here needs to learn from you good people. For all your support, many thanks and best regards

Sicerely

Nelson

Yes,you are right that peoples get information from you...

But i don't think that they don't want to build any

detector at all...

Do you know some peoples don't have any informations about electronics

but love it!

[ivconic]

Heh,heh...!

Prevent bricks to smash my head when falling!

Heh,heh,heh...

Geo, where are you? Long time no see?

I finished 1266. It is working but erratically....it must be that transformer.
Also i dont have original quartz, so put 32kHz....Bad, very bad!

I left it in a scrap pcb's....No need any more, now we have Tesoro Golden Sabre - much better!

I was thinking to make "Light" version even more simple;

Instead those two LM308 to put one TL082, alos instead LM393 to put LM339....?

What do you think people? It will work or not?
I'll post schematic these days....

[ivconic]

"Kraut" !!!

German. Prevent bricks to fall on myhead!