TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Max]

Hi ivconic, Max, et all

yes i think too that omega coil is some ignored in comparison to DD coil. Maybe some difficults in field of construction but with same principle of work and tunning like DD could be promising.

I haven't experience with cc and omega only with DD coil. Now i get some surplus Cul wire & will try to invest this in a bit experiment in other shape of coils than DD (omega preferably).

As chalenge, maybe someone (i hope) outgoing me and reported all, here is photo of my winding utensil 1,5 cm wood splinter plate and 28/4,8mm rivets:



Some leading question about this construction (from theory or practice): Wish to know if better pinpointing is the only reason that RX coil is mostly constructed as inner coil? Can we improve sensitivity with RX coil as outer coil?

Hi,
yes, right... seems promising as new coil for TGS , and also similar to what we already know is good (DD coil) about nulling... that will be relatively easy compared to e.g. coplanar/concentric.

We talk about it somewhere in some previous post... but now I cannot remember if Ivconic made already one or not.

About smaller RX, right: used for pinpointing stuff... like happens in coplanar-concentric with smaller the RX coil at middle (one could also use smaller tx and bigger RX but this is a bit unusual in VLF stuff). Also... the smaller coil is for balancing (null) ...coil is small cause omega part is small too... so you need just few overlapping to get coils nulled.

In DD coils , instead, the nulling is performed along the central "line" and so on a wider area: this results in widescan behaviour (need less sweep to cover same space) but also in more difficault pinpointing of targets (you have to use an external pinpointer or tip-toe strategy to find the hot spot).

Kind regards,
Max

[WM6]

(¤) coil

Dimensions: diameter of outer (second outer circle) coil 32cm, inner coil 16cm, overlapping section of outer coil 12,5cm. Of course, rivets are only removable putted into hole, not permanently fixed (on back side of plate i put on overplus of rivets only adhesive tape).

[WM6]

(¤) coil

Hi ivconic, Max, et all

yes i think too that omega coil is some ignored in comparison to DD coil. Maybe some difficults in field of construction but with same principle of work and tunning like DD could be promising.

I haven't experience with cc and omega only with DD coil. Now i get some surplus Cul wire & will try to invest this in a bit experiment in other shape of coils than DD (omega preferably).

As chalenge, maybe someone (i hope) outgoing me and reported all, here is photo of my winding utensil 1,5 cm wood splinter plate and 28/4,8mm rivets:



Some leading question about this construction (from theory or practice): Wish to know if better pinpointing is the only reason that RX coil is mostly constructed as inner coil? Can we improve sensitivity with RX coil as outer coil?

[Max]

Authority....? I am not that neither to my house! Not to mention here!?

I am not successfull with concentric coils. Mostly i do DD coils lately. Dont play with concentric coil cose i could'nt find proper way to make faraday cage for those. Graphite spray i dont like to use so really cant help you here.In the past i tried to make some cc coil for White's Classic III and it was a joke, not a coil. You must ask somebody else for that.

Hi,
I think will be more interesting for us develop a good omega coil... like in old articles of project section.

Those are really good for pinpointing without losing much about performances and they can give also good disc if made the rigth way.

Better if we think at one with at least 25cm diameter for TGS.

About shield is much more easy (and safe) to do , with common foil etc, than the graphite paint required for concentric coplanar...

Have you made any test about them on TGS?

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

ok, ivconic, you are authority here, ill try to believe in discrimination at 1m (though i cant).
Thank you for all friendly explanations. I agree about quality of some obsolete machine.

Regarding coil you mention, one question:
which solution is better for concentric coils:
to put RX coil as inner coil and TX coil as outer coil or just the opposite.
All real experiences welcome.
Thank you in advance.

Authority....? I am not that neither to my house! Not to mention here!?

I am not successfull with concentric coils. Mostly i do DD coils lately. Dont play with concentric coil cose i could'nt find proper way to make faraday cage for those. Graphite spray i dont like to use so really cant help you here.In the past i tried to make some cc coil for White's Classic III and it was a joke, not a coil. You must ask somebody else for that.

RH & concentric colis

ok, ivconic, you are authority here, ill try to believe in discrimination at 1m (though i cant).
Thank you for all friendly explanations. I agree about quality of some obsolete machine.

Regarding coil you mention, one question:
which solution is better for concentric coils:
to put RX coil as inner coil and TX coil as outer coil or just the opposite.
All real experiences welcome.
Thank you in advance.

[ivconic]

Hi ivconic
very interesting infos.

Maybe they stopped RH as nobody is ready to dig regularly at 95 cm?.

Without many comparative test of different MD in same situations it is hart to say that RH (or Nexus) is better than other MD.

Concerning discrimination at 95cm, keep in mind that you dig river nearby and fishing likely beside, so this fits in with fishing fables.

Your TGS is fixed now?

"Many comparative tests"...? Does 20 years of prospecting experience with over the 200 various devices compete to your "comparative tests"?
I dont know about Nexus, never tried it. But do know about RH. Had it for 3 years.
Fishing fables...do i sell Minelab Relic Hawk here???
Do i work for Minelab?
My RH is broken for year. Uselles. Burned. Wasted.
I dont have reason to tell stories here. Also do not have slitest interest.
Your obvious disapointment in metal detectors is ok. I am also much disapointed in most of good advertised devices on market today.
I can make sort of "parallel" here. Noticed some negative tendecies. I had White's Eagle IIc in early '90.s Actually i bought it in 1991. in Germany.
Now we can say it is old and obsolete, comparing to DFX. But i can tell you it is much better than DFX, for sure.
Twice better.
Same with Minelab. Old RH is much better than new Minelab's.
Why? I dont have a clue.
Simply those are my personal experiences. Doesnt mean a rule.
Maybe you live in area with soil more suitable to be searched with some other type of detector? Maybe that's why we have oposite experiences?
Doesn't matter at all. I do not bug myself with those questions at all.
TGS fixed? It was never broked? Why to be fixed?
I am reporting here my latest experiments oftenly. Notices,remarks...
I made 20 and more different coils for TGS in manner to check and experiment more and more. Had problems with some coils. With some dont.
That's all.

RH

Hi ivconic
very interesting infos.

Maybe they stopped RH as nobody is ready to dig regularly at 95 cm?.

Without many comparative test of different MD in same situations it is hart to say that RH (or Nexus) is better than other MD.

Concerning discrimination at 95cm, keep in mind that you dig river nearby and fishing likely beside, so this fits in with fishing fables.

Your TGS is fixed now?

[ivconic]

"It could fully discriminate medium sized object at 70-80cm in the ground."

huh, ivconic, maybe it can detect at 80cm but not discriminate.

I meant what i said! Mark my words; IT CAN DICRIMINATE UP TO 95cm IN THE GROUND.
And i mean ORIGINAL Minelab Relic Hawk, not some handmade, you might been checked.
I am saying this cose i had it for 3 years, worked with it on many terrains and do have much finds.
Old Roman locations near the rivers in Serbia are deep due huge deposit of soil and mud, fetched by river itself. So usually items are very deep. Over 50-60 cm in the ground, even more, more than 1 m.
Aint no VLF metal detector with which you can detect those except Relic Hawk, so far. Neither one more.
A friend of my detected old roman lantern made from bronze at 95cm in that soil with full discrimination. I was there. We had not doubts about metal type so we dug and founded it. Other day i located 30 and more coins under 50cm in same soil, again with full discrimination, even foil and thin silver rejected.
No need to tell here that iron was totally rejected.
So do not have doubts in my claims here, i do know very good what i am talking here. I had over 50 various devices so far. Over 100 handmades.
Neither one could and can compete RH, ever.
These days White's DFX is considered as most powerfull VLF metal detector. I dont have it but my close friend have it. I took it on the field few times. Yes it is good, but it is also "little baby" comparing to Relic Hawk.
Some Bulgarians made reverse en. on Relic Hawk, reduced schematic (some stages omited) and made nice,neat pcb. So there is possibility to check RH performances with that copy. But so as i heared that device is very good but coil which comes with it is not good as original Minelab coil came with original RH. I do have original RH coil.It is 35(inner),36.5(outer) DD coil. Very large but also very efficient. But it is not only about coil. RH device it self is perfectly optimized VLF detector.
I am wandering why the hell they stopped to produce it???
I have checked Explorer, X-Terra and Sovereign. All those are toys comparing RH. So, it will be in best Minelab interest to continue with RH production. Yet they stoped???? Why?
Maybe it will be good to hear gentleman from Minelab personally explaining why...

Relic Havk

"It could fully discriminate medium sized object at 70-80cm in the ground."

huh, ivconic, maybe it can detect at 80cm but not discriminate.

[ivconic]

Tough!
I havent tried that.
But, deepest discriminative VLF, i ever saw in my life was Minelab Relic Hawk. It could fully discriminate medium sized object at 70-80cm in the ground. Coil was 36.5cm diammeter, double D. Extraordinary performances.
About TGS...!? I dont know. Largest coil i made was 32cm eliptical DD coil.
Accurate discriminate was up to 30cm....not more.
But in All Metal it could detect medium sized objects under 80cm in the ground. By medium sized objects i mean ...let's say bronze plate 10x10cm or simillar.
But depth also depends of how much time object was layed in the ground.
Fresh burried items are detected at lower depths than long time burried.
Personally, i dont expect discriminate to be much improved by using large diammeter coils with TGS.
TGS although very nice as handmade, still it is very simple design to compete with really beasty machines like Relic Hawk or DFX or simillar.

Go Deeper for Large Objects??

Can anybody advise how we can increase depth of detecting, using TGS Tesoro Golden Sabre with discrimination for large metal objects (e.g. 1kg of gold or gallon-size copper buried 1-2 meters) underground?

Is it possible to make 2 D coils with 1meter Demeter to detect a gallon at depth 1-2m in ground??
I know in PI detectors is it common to increase the depth of detecting but with no discrimination. How would be possible in 2-coil detector? Can anybody help? Or anyone tried before? Thanks in advance

[tchoci]

P.S. #0,28mm GENERATOR (R-2,2k>1.20k.)&(47k>102k.)
f=14,2KHz.

[tchoci]

Super.1eu-35sm. DD coil-28sm.Diskriminate OK.GND-OK.

TX-108n./RX-119n.
d=2x220mm.

[Max]

Ahhh! ... the other problem could be that the tuning caps are not in the search head, but are in the main housing. In this case, the cable capacitance is also part of the coil tuning, and you must use very high quality connecting cable.

Hi,
yes right... but I still think these erratic spot noise happens cause of thermal stuff.

I notice very well when early in the morning is cold... then sun rise and temperature too... and control box start "boiling"!

Of course, I use hi quality wires on my thing...

Kind regards,
Max