RELIC HAWK

[robopatt]

What Inductance you used for TX?

[Max]

I will repeat;
at my original RH transistors in oscillator were Q3=BC547, Q2=BC557 and Q1=??? . Q1 was smt transistor without any label or designator.
So...only task we have now is to distinguish damn Q1.
At bulgarian Coinseeker there was BC328,BC557 and BC547 on one version. But i also saw version with BC327,BC327 and BC337....
It is obvious those transistors are critical and choosen by some "must" criteria. Most probably by hFe...and coil itself.

Hi,
yes, all right. Many dubts on that also here... I'm not totally sure of that transistor there.

I just know that when I used the bc337 it worked , with good results... but I know... the osc section is so tricky part that changing a few a resistor it will not work anymore with all the rest unchanged.

What to say... I think the unknown transistor it's something with selected gain to have oscillations and components are really strict on tolerance in original ML mds.

People here must know making osc work it's not trivial task cause it's primary source of troubles most of the times in homemade RH clones.

No easy, good, always right solution for that... just trial and error.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

I will repeat;
at my original RH transistors in oscillator were Q3=BC547, Q2=BC557 and Q1=??? . Q1 was smt transistor without any label or designator.
So...only task we have now is to distinguish damn Q1.
At bulgarian Coinseeker there was BC328,BC557 and BC547 on one version. But i also saw version with BC327,BC327 and BC337....
It is obvious those transistors are critical and choosen by some "must" criteria. Most probably by hFe...and coil itself.

[robopatt]

measuring frequency at a different place: e.g. the pin 1 of 4024 (clock).

You may also check at output pin of 4024 Q2 for divided frequency.

Ok.This were my other strategy that I have used.But I am not shore that I check it every time!It were a lot of soldering.
So now we wanna just make oscillator work.Other things later if any.
I will try again soon to find proper BC solution.
At first place decided to build this one because it look nice,its good modded and if work will be great progress for all.

[Max]

OK.
Just point me the spots in a picture.And I will check those.
How to prvent burning the frequencymeter?

Hi,
to measure frequency at oscillator you can use an attenuated probe 10:1 at oscillator then connect the connector of probe to the freq meter or counter. You can also make a simple 10:1 divider using e.g. 9Mohm + 1Mohm resistors and using it as voltage divider, connecting the inputs of meter across the 1Mohm resistor and one lead of that resistor to gnd. That ways you'll not destroy any precious instrument.

Another strategy where you don't need any divider is measuring frequency at a different place: e.g. the pin 1 of 4024 (clock).

You may also check at output pin of 4024 Q2 for divided frequency.

Using an oscope is much better for all that stuff... but sure not everyone has ready , don't know about your testing gear, but you may consider borrow one for very tricky tasks... like phasing coils or made good phase/disc tuning on RH.

Kind regards,
Max

[robopatt]

OK.
Just point me the spots in a picture.And I will check those.
How to prvent burning the frequencymeter?

[Fred]

Hi ,
Yes Max,
I was saying that because this oscillator looks so tricky, and the capacitance of leads may also interfere.
Now the fact that the f-meter burned may mean that the oscillator worked at some time
regards!
Fred.

[Max]

I think the oscillator will not work if you have the frequency meter directly connected to it.
You should try inductive coupling or after amp stage.

Hi Fred,
uhm... maybe right in his case... I don't know. All depends on impedance at freq meter input... if really (several Mohms) high he'll read frequency with no pain to the osc... cause of really small load on it.

Also... the RH oscillator is made to generate a (bang) resonance freq of 5KHz at coil/cap resonator... that's hi voltage of several tens volts in the ideal case that means it's more and more powerful than simple e.g. colpitts (like in TGS and other Tesoro's) so... even bad freq meters with lower input impedance will get a reading there... (or get burnt in a few seconds! ).

Sure, your advice is in the right direction anyway: I suggest him (next step) to check frequency in another part of circuit after digital gates (e.g. at frequency div).

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

A friend came for a coffee.
And I had a short chance to test with musketeer coil.And same story.
But have noticed that if I touch U4/with my handmade coil and BC327;BC547;BC557/ I get some strange sound like its alive but in same time still oscillator dont work and my frequencymeter burned.
So I will have to buy new one first.

Hi,
Ivconic is really right (as always) : you have to play with coils and transistor at osc stage, otherwise device will never work.

Don't trust sound at that level, just check the sinus voltage... use a frequency meter and the like to get exactly 5KHz.

Just AFTER you get perfect 5KHz sinus you'll start to think at other troubles (if any).

Now... cause you have right voltages there the problem must be at oscillatior section... REMEMBER it's really critical piece of circuit and you'll get much troubles before make it work right way... it's about small tolerances in e.g. resistance of coil and gain of transistors.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

?Eh!?
Note in last schematic that i changed pullup resistor from 22K to 4K7? Did you saw that? Also speaker is not 8 ohms any more but 16ohms....you saw that?

Yes... 16ohm speaker always better in that dang things... (MDs I mean).

And if Apple made... well... even better!

But what's new about that RH new version ? It is working or not ? I still don't understand if there's something missing or not...

Maybe I have to READ all that posts of above but I will be thankful of direct explainations of troubles with it.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

In TGSL bc 327 in osc.stage dont work,but 2n2907 work fine.Maybe same problem.

? are you sure you wired it with right pinout ?

bc327 when leads down and flat facing you has collector on the left...
it's easy to mess up with orientation there.

Also... required hfe you have to match cause 327 is sometimess... kinda of lazy thing.

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

A friend came for a coffee.
And I had a short chance to test with musketeer coil.And same story.
But have noticed that if I touch U4/with my handmade coil and BC327;BC547;BC557/ I get some strange sound like its alive but in same time still oscillator dont work and my frequencymeter burned.
So I will have to buy new one first.

I think the oscillator will not work if you have the frequency meter directly connected to it.
You should try inductive coupling or after amp stage.

[robopatt]

A friend came for a coffee.
And I had a short chance to test with musketeer coil.And same story.
But have noticed that if I touch U4/with my handmade coil and BC327;BC547;BC557/ I get some strange sound like its alive but in same time still oscillator dont work and my frequencymeter burned.
So I will have to buy new one first.

[ivconic]

No, dont bug yourself.
Just leave it like it is right now. Try to make oscillator to work.
Try to make some other coil...
Read Max's post in previous pages. As i remember, Max also has simillar problems from a start, but later he solved it and made his device to work very good.
It is all about coil and transistors there...
You have good voltages there, dont bug yourself with those anymore..
Switch those 2 resistors in TX.
Use BC557 and BC547 and for the main transistor...i am not sure...you must experiment.

[robopatt]

Have changed all like you say!
Only speaker was not changed to 16 ohm.But do you think this is the real problem?
Beside of this I have noticed some change like some strange sound apered but oscillator was not working and there were still no V- .
So I decided to restore like it was.And work on oscillator.
Any new ideas?
Because its ready now.I have try bc547,557,....
If you think that speaker is the probleme I will repeat the procedure but this time will use 16 ohm.