RELIC HAWK

[Fred]

Hi,
I mean... I can disc now a bit... but iron stuff still give beeps from time to time and at particular distances...

This is LRL effect.Probably some gold staue 20km away...

Also... make sense to you the motion/no-motion there ??? Seems a bit odd...by the way...also this feature doesn't work! ...

Should work :when in motion mode the 1uF cap value (kind of memory) discharges via the 22k resistor.When in non-motion it only goes thru the 10M ones,(so keep charged ), "reset" just temporarly connect it to the 22k resistor.

Ps : i swap a hat like yours for a semi-populated RH PCB ...you can keep the cigar.
regards,
Fred.

[Max]

Hi Max,

Have you checked whereabouts the DISC channel is sampling on the RX signal?
Also, is the GEB channel sampling at the zero-crossing point?
If not, then the phasing on the coil is probably incorrect.

Hi,
GEB is at zero-crossing... I mean... the control pulse has its middle at zero-crossing of RX signal... that is what you mean I think. So seems good.

Disc is instead about 90° shifted but I must check again... for movements using the disc pot. I noticed spurious sharp communtation at some pot positions... but just 2 positions, all the others are ok.

I think disc control timing is probably correct... but maybe coil need particular phase shift of RX signal. I don't know if coil I've made can fit particular phase requirements if any.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
I think problem is around op amps selection... using some different op amps I found there's an improvement , this expecially about U4 and U8... but problem is that disc works still bad way...no good.

I mean... I can disc now a bit... but iron stuff still give beeps from time to time and at particular distances...so it's not reliable...I've used some ne5532 at U4 and U8, but I also found that mounting some NE5532 I get better than with others... same brand (philips) same model! Dang!

Very critical this circuit!

The sensitivity in disc mode is still poor compared to all-metal.

Maybe ML used some special phase alignement at coil ???

Who knows ?

I'm also smoking the dang cigar now... and nothing come in mind about all that troubles...I see at disc mode!

Also... make sense to you the motion/no-motion there ??? Seems a bit odd...by the way...also this feature doesn't work!

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

The TR51-ph7 is a BSR51 transistor, npn darlington + internal diode, we can use BC517 or C517 or similar without much problems.Kind regards,
Max

Hi,
I mean the one on page #1 of this thread, labeled "relic hawk 1".
No , I changed for BC337, BC327 at osc, they work good.
The BC517 is instead of darlington BSR51 at audio stuff, not labeled in schematic.
Kind regards,
Max

Im´confused,i thought the bc517 was the trick for good oscillation with higher resistance coil.
thanks too nakky for answer about schematic on 1st thread.

regards,
Fred.

[Max]

I Max
I had the same problems when i built eldorado and silver, they work very whell in all metal but not in disc.
The problem was the phase shift tx rx with small difference thre were big difference in disc.
But for check phase difference you need a dual trace oscope.

Maybe you have the same problem on RH.

Bye Maxbiri

Hi,
yes , phase is probably involved but not only... must be something else too.

I'm doing some checks at now but sampling seems good and I'm a bit confused about that, cause detector works really bad in disc mode.

Kind regards,
Max

[maxbiri]

I Max
I had the same problems when i built eldorado and silver, they work very whell in all metal but not in disc.
The problem was the phase shift tx rx with small difference thre were big difference in disc.
But for check phase difference you need a dual trace oscope.

Maybe you have the same problem on RH.

Bye Maxbiri

[Max]

TikTak thanks,
original RH does not have speaker, only earphones.

Quiaozhi i was thinking the same way, only didnt want to bug to much; most of my doubts are on coil Max used there.
My problem right now is due i dont have proper wire gauge to perfom detailed experiments and finally establish most accurate datas for RH coil. But i am pretty close.
Need to keep resistance arround 40 ohms for RX and inductance 15uH on 30cm former.
I guess TX part would be much easier to distinguish and make.
Actually piece of cake. Only 35 windings on 30cm former must give 3.1 ohms and 1uH inductance. So....0.5 to 0.6mm would do the job just fine.
At the end only one thing left; proper residual voltage?
Also easy job. I intend to make only TX part on perfboard, connect to original coil and measure residual voltage at RX outputs.
Must obey 5kHz frequency for proper readings.
Once we get proper datas, it would be even easier to calculate smaller diammeter coil - my preferables! Yup!
As original 35cm is a way to large for my taste. I intend to make 24cm coil for RH.
MAX...come to think....how about LS204 opamps? Obsolete, but i have few in my scrapbox.
Regards!

Hi Ivconic,
I think ls204 are good for it... not about consumption or strictly speaking fully equivalent to ts27m2 but I think they will work good too.

I was thinking too at coil... but don't know how to check for phase stuff on this... cause I can just null good... and few movements make the coil get too much signal at preamp inputs...

The disc channel sample the signal and seems good, so I think I must check signals for some mistake in pcb or schematic but till now I found nothing about.

Qiaozhi is probably right, the all-metal works good cause of the direct, single channel operations... but when both channels are connected and compared device stop working good.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi Max,
wich schematic is that? i only know the one we used here.
Did you use the BC 517 at oscillator?

Regards,
Fred.

Hi,
I mean the one on page #1 of this thread, labeled "relic hawk 1".

No , I changed for BC337, BC327 at osc, they work good.

The BC517 is instead of darlington BSR51 at audio stuff, not labeled in schematic.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

TikTak thanks,
original RH does not have speaker, only earphones.

Quiaozhi i was thinking the same way, only didnt want to bug to much; most of my doubts are on coil Max used there.
My problem right now is due i dont have proper wire gauge to perfom detailed experiments and finally establish most accurate datas for RH coil. But i am pretty close.
Need to keep resistance arround 40 ohms for RX and inductance 15uH on 30cm former.
I guess TX part would be much easier to distinguish and make.
Actually piece of cake. Only 35 windings on 30cm former must give 3.1 ohms and 1uH inductance. So....0.5 to 0.6mm would do the job just fine.
At the end only one thing left; proper residual voltage?
Also easy job. I intend to make only TX part on perfboard, connect to original coil and measure residual voltage at RX outputs.
Must obey 5kHz frequency for proper readings.
Once we get proper datas, it would be even easier to calculate smaller diammeter coil - my preferables! Yup!
As original 35cm is a way to large for my taste. I intend to make 24cm coil for RH.
MAX...come to think....how about LS204 opamps? Obsolete, but i have few in my scrapbox.
Regards!

[Qiaozhi]

In All-metal it works average...26cm on air for 1eur coin with 11'' DD coil... but big troubles are when in disc mode!

Hi Max,

Have you checked whereabouts the DISC channel is sampling on the RX signal?
Also, is the GEB channel sampling at the zero-crossing point?
If not, then the phasing on the coil is probably incorrect.

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Ivconic.How are you.Did you recover?
I wanna ask you did your RH had speaker or this device works only with phones?
Thanks
p.s.I am glad that you are back here,so I wont post again because of your will.

[tiktak]

HI,

Hi,
Fred look at the first page of the treat!And Ivconics site there is all the info about Coinseecer.Realy different disition.But its just maked to work.Not the original RH.And we are trying to make the original RH!

Eclipse=stelian bourgas waiting for a new info for new coinseecer?
We now that wont help even oposite make some frustrations here AGAIN.

Eugene-we can learn how live from ML's history and it wont be enough.Be wise.Have you ever experianse XLT or GP?40 cm denar and you can lift the coil 10-15 cm and the signall is still strong and clear!We are close to clone RH thanks to MAX and freds PCB but we are still very far from advanced version of RH which is 1998 model!SO......................

[Fred]

If you look at comparators before BC517 in first schematic (bulgarian one) you'll see pretty different connections of comparators...
Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,
wich schematic is that? i only know the one we used here.
Did you use the BC 517 at oscillator?

Regards,
Fred.

[Max]

Hi Max,you no but I don't no ,suggestion TLC27M7 or TLC 3702 are use in ML SOV ?Grt Nakky.

Hi,
I don't know... I haven't sov schematic. 27m7 is dual precision op amp... the tlc3702 is dual comparator, probably both are present in it.

I clearly see the ne5534 smt inside the coil you posted... would be nice making the coil that way... and avoiding long wires between coil and preamp...

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Contributing people here are just a few people, we know who they are.
People who just read and take ideas without giving something to the forum - alot. Coinseeker was a commercial project, never intended to sell in lots.. just a few units to see how it's handling bulgarian soils, etc. Seems that RH/Musketeer are the best working devices here, among the other top-used devices XLT,SD2200,GP3000,Explorer; the only one not having microcontroller among all...

Not to be confused with the author of CS2 pro, I was friend of the author, he doesn't know english that good, i don't think it would be much of a help for him posting in the internet

Hi,
I've took a look at SD2000 these days... and seems to me there's similar philosophy there (though schematics is different and more complex). ML uses very good stuff inside MDs like the LT1057 and TS27M7 , nice ics along with NE5534 front end... very common on PIs too. Now... in SD2000 there's no MCU, at least I can't see in schematic made by Vladimir and posted by KT315.

Just 4093s... other gates... easy... complex cause of some redoundancy and unusual components but not about logic.

I cannot recall if RH beat SD2000 on depth but is probably this way on average soil!

Not cause SD2000 it's bad, I think is very nice designed machine... but maybe some solutions tend to overcomplicate stuff... and avoid cloning by mass producers... not only to gain something about depth or stability.

Kind regards,
Max