TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[ivconic]

Batt. check...


Many thanks!
Regards!

[Geo]

Dont forget great Minelab and its DD coils, probably the best coils on market today!
DD and OO coils are pretty much simillar, almost the same concept....so if Minelab can do,
why not we?
!

He....He...he
Hello Great Ivica

[Max]

O.K. Unregistered, i failed to make proper coil, i suppose...Anyway, i am satisfy with this one. Why dont you register and join the club? We need more people here on this subject. Best regards!
Geo, yes i tried with CL3 and results are very good. But OO coils for CL3 are different...step up relation 1:4, you know what i mean...

Now in addition post i prepared early this morning but not posted until now:

My last post i posted with one eye focused on watch, to avoid "time out"
message here. I just finished for today (night) dealing with G.Sabre and
coils. I am so tired, exausted you may say. Whole day, yesterday i spend
experimetning with different coils. That's why my last post is so sloppy....
even with gramatical&syntax errors. Sorry people!
Few things i forgot to write here;
first, i used 0.3mm wire for TX - 97 turns on 22cm former than reassembled
and same wire used on 11cm former! Inductance is 6.7mH,
resistance 23.7 ohms.
I also used 0.4mm wire for RX.....sheeesh! I dont remember that i measured
inductance at all !!!??? Sheeesh!
So, 145 turns for RX...(finall RX coil).I also made 3 more RX coils with turns
from 88 to 160, and with wire from 0.3mm to 0.5mm. Than i experimented with all
RX coils i made....All of those 4 RX coils worked pretty good? Which leads me to
conclusion than G.Sabre RX input have sort of wide "band width"?! Finally i decided
to use 145 turns RX coil cose noticed better performances than with others...
I made farady cage with Al foil on both coils. I think this is crucial for
stabillity. Also way how to connect F.cage in overall setup.
I noticed quite obvious variance beetwen schematic and pcb. There is not connection
between RX inputs and gnd on pcb, while it is made on schematic!?
I wasnt sure which way is correct (although checked all Tesoro schematics and saw
no connection on those), so decided to try both ways and see the difference.
There is difference in stabillity; pretty unstabile when RX connected to gnd, despite
F.Cage (coupling, twisted pair or something else....), never mind.
But when RX not connected on gnd (respecting only pcb), coil is very stabile.
To check that, i "punched" cables,coil,pcb....shaked,twisted....tortured it on many
ways.....and it was very cool! Not even one false signal! Very,very good!
But! The secret is in way how to connect F.cage; i connected both AL foils very
shortly (as short as could be, due certain movements while adjusting coils)...
Than both Al foils (F.Cage) connected also shortest way to gnd side of TX.
Than used 1 coaxial and one "twin lead" cable and made connection with pcb.Coaxial
is for TX and twin lead for RX. And that is all. Perfectly stabile.
Oh i forgot, i used 12cm former for both coils to wind. Very small, isnt it?
But results were astonishing! 2cm coin detecting at 27cm distance in all metal mode and
22 cm in disc mode! I can only imagine results with larger diammeter coil!?
Cigarretes package detected over 40cm! Cola can over 50cm !
Discrimination is very good, much better than Classic 3...Sensitivity to small gold
items also very good, much,much better than Classic 3!
Somehow, i have feeling that this is not all. I did all this very sloppy, experimenting
all day, without concrete concept. Just "playing" with different coils and setups....
At the end, very tired, i lost concentration and decided to take rest for a while, until
be able to make any conclusions from that experiences and establish proper method for
making this type of coil by some standards in future.
I also wish to experiment with larger diammeters and see limits.
Results are more than good. But remember that all is done on the table, in workshop!
It will need to take out this coil and put it under real tests, in real conditions.
I am encouraged even now, cose it showed great stabillity. Comparing with my previous
experiences with CL3 and other coils (big number of those) i have great expectations
from this coil on the real field,outdoor....But we will see.
Dont forget great Minelab and its DD coils, probably the best coils on market today!
I always keep thinking on TS800 18cm coil for Musketeer, which showed best performances
ever in my not so poor experience on that matter.
DD and OO coils are pretty much simillar, almost the same concept....so if Minelab can do,
why not we?
I tried to keep preferences of coil as close to original as i can. So inductances are
pretty close to original.....arround 6mH...some to 6.5mH....Resistances are also close....
22 to 23 ohms....I used wires from 0.3mm...some to 0.4mm...
Only one thing bugs me with this G.Sabre i made;
When switching ON, at first, there is constant audio tone for 3-4 seconds, than decays and
stops. Than it is ready and start working perfect! Is this normal!?
If it is not, than i suspect some capacitor maybe not good, or maybe some fet or transistor?
Cose i used very old J107 fets from very,very old and rusty scraped pcb...dirty and look
100 years old! They all looking good, but those are very old components...."exausted" much!
Also, i put very old (but tested and good) Bi-polars....Heh, 2 of them are 4.7uF and 2 of them
3.3 uF....I couldnt find 4 same....so i put 3.3 just to test device, and those stayed on it.
Also i put old elco's (220uF), but also previously tested with cap. meter.
In TX i put BC557, in audio put MPSA14....i forgot; in TX and in chopper there are 2 BF245b
still (not replaced with J107)....the rest of fets are J107's....
IC's are all originals - no replacements.
So, why it "singing" when switched ON for few seconds? Anybody have any idea?
Regards!
P.S.
Be free to make simillar coil. I am not joking at all, not lying for sure!
Make your own coil and see. Later post here your results. I would like to see if any
differences? Also i would like to hear some more tips here about this (now free to say)
very,very good detector!

Hi ivconic,
good work ! I think that I can play with OO coils too and soon. They are easy to do and seems working well.
I've realized a very good DD coil in 2 hours ! OO are even more simply to do.
I've used 120 turns for both tx and rx...coil works great on bandido !
Just a trick...overlap tx coil upon rx coil...so rx remains flat and only tx "bounce" over. This way I get maximum sensitivity where the opposite case I get lower distancies with same objects. Then nulled everything as well as I can and surprise: very sensitive and disc is not bad at all.
Try this trick. Keep RX flat and TX over it. You could gain depth.

Best regards,
Max

[Geo]

Hi Max .
How do you made the coils shield ? At DD coil that i made, i wrapped one layer plastic isolating tape, one layer foil and again one layer plastic isolating tape. i put a wire on the foil and i tied up tight it with a conductive plastic tape so foil...wire and tape are one body. At VLF detectors a good coil shield is the most critical.
Regards

[Max]

Hi Max .
How do you made the coils shield ? At DD coil that i made, i wrapped one layer plastic isolating tape, one layer foil and again one layer plastic isolating tape. i put a wire on the foil and i tied up tight it with a conductive plastic tape so foil...wire and tape are one body. At VLF detectors a good coil shield is the most critical.
Regards

Hi Geo,
I wrapped a first layer of insulating tape (the black one - plastic made), then I wrapped mylar/al (aluminium on mylar film) on top of tape, then again another layer of insulating tape. I connected a bare wire wounded on al-layer facing out I leave free of insulating tape. That's all.
2 shields separate for the 2 coils...then cables to same point gnd.
Aluminium layer is really thin and sometimes mylar breaks but you can wound with care without breaking it.

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Shielding...


Thanks for tips!

Geo, you can freely use AL foil....I do not have any problems with it, although i read some posts here where some people claims that Al foil is not quite proper. Of course you have to be sure there is no break in wounds, also good and stiff connection with cable too. I didnt see any changes on scope when checking coil with and without Al foil. I mean not big changes....maybe slice changes in amplitude....decrease in some 5-7%....We can live with that.
But benefits are great, in stabillity....
Regards!

[Geo]

Hi Max and ivica .
I made a lot of coils with shield. Foil is a very easy and good shield. Another very good shield is the semiconductive tape, you wrapp the coil and that is all (Thanks Reg i made another good coil), but it is difficult to me to find the scotch 13 tape. I asked Max about shield because who knows ... maybe to learn a new shielding method. Aaaa btw max where you buy the "aluminium on mylar film"
Regards

[Max]

Hi Max and ivica .
I made a lot of coils with shield. Foil is a very easy and good shield. Another very good shield is the semiconductive tape, you wrapp the coil and that is all (Thanks Reg i made another good coil), but it is difficult to me to find the scotch 13 tape. I asked Max about shield because who knows ... maybe to learn a new shielding method. Aaaa btw max where you buy the "aluminium on mylar film"
Regards

Hi Geo,
actually I don't buy it. Have a friend that uses it on his workplace (TLC) and then gives small quantities to me for free. Not entire rolls just some meters of this type...some of this other...etc that are wastes in some kind of shielding process.
Sometimes it's too large for directly wound on coils then I need to cut it wasting a lot of this stuff that breaks every time.
I found it's very good and could be also cheapy but difficault to find out of some industries that use it for emi or other things.
I found that some hi-quality mylar caps have it or similar inside, but it's almost impossible to dismantle one to get intact material.
I think that maybe in the US some dealer can have small quantities to sell cause my friend's industry buy all this stuff from US.
I know that aluminium is vacuum evapoured on mylar surface.
Rwsistance is very low...much like kitchen foil...but layer is something 50 to 100 times (or more, who knows ?) lower than kitchen rolls.

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Wow !!!!


Extreme good results!!!
I finished packing it in box.Also finished smaller coil and preparing a bit larger.
Both tested.
1cm coin at 36cm with larger coil, absoulute stabile, no drifts,no hums,no false signals!!! Discrimination perfect!
1cm coin at 30cm with smaller coil.........rest same as with larger!
Smaller coil tested on ground. 29cm depth detection of 1cm coin burried in ground! Much better than Musketeer!
" ...if Minelab can do, why dont we?"

I told you...didnt i?

Both coils same inductances; 6.5mH for Rx and 6mH for TX.... (double D)

Larger 26x26cm and smaller 24x13cm (double O coil)


What to say?
I guess i was sort of blind, wasting my time with Classic so far....

This Golden Sabre is perfectly optimized, thats why so good results!
I dare to say that it is much better than Bandido too.
So....thats all so far!
Regards

[ivconic]

Photos...

Here some photos...

[ivconic]

Unit

Unit...

[ivconic]

Smaller coil...

Smaller coil...

[Geo]

Hi Ivica .
Ohhh perfect results. 36 cm for 1cm coin ????
If it is so then is more deeper than Classic...... i think it is time to change the CL3 with Golden Sabre.
Please tell me who are the dimensions of GS pcb? Now i make a new pcb for Anker SS60 so when i will finish with it i will try to make and to experiment a Golden Sabre. But.......... somethink says me that all Tessoro are the same.... But........ 36 cm is big distance.
I wait about pcb
Regards

" ...if Minelab can do, why dont we?"

[Max]

Extreme good results!!!
I finished packing it in box.Also finished smaller coil and preparing a bit larger.
Both tested.
1cm coin at 36cm with larger coil, absoulute stabile, no drifts,no hums,no false signals!!! Discrimination perfect!
1cm coin at 30cm with smaller coil.........rest same as with larger!
Smaller coil tested on ground. 29cm depth detection of 1cm coin burried in ground! Much better than Musketeer!
" ...if Minelab can do, why dont we?"

I told you...didnt i?

Both coils same inductances; 6.5mH for Rx and 6mH for TX.... (double D)

Larger 26x26cm and smaller 24x13cm (double O coil)


What to say?
I guess i was sort of blind, wasting my time with Classic so far....

This Golden Sabre is perfectly optimized, thats why so good results!
I dare to say that it is much better than Bandido too.
So....thats all so far!
Regards

Hi ivconic,
congratulations ! Seems very good results. I'll try to make GoldenSabre in future when have some spare time. Some things are close to bandido but other are different from it.
Yes, in disc mode also bandido is really stable if good shielded.

Best regards,
Max

[Unregistered]

Hello Ivconic,
Congratulations with your results.
Test your coils with different items, and ground preset, see de differents...