TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[bernte_one]

Can anyone here tell me how i can flip the board on the pdf format? because i dont know how to do it.
Or can someone post me a ordenary picture I can put onto office, because then its so easy.

Many thanks in advance

Dave

install pdf creator
when printing choose instead of your standard printer pdf creator
the file goes redirected to pdf document instead of paper sheet from your printer
i put the pcb into word.doc they are easy to fit into right size so
but do it like you want

[Qiaozhi]

Can anyone here tell me how i can flip the board on the pdf format? because i dont know how to do it.
Or can someone post me a ordenary picture I can put onto office, because then its so easy.

Many thanks in advance

Dave

Download the Gimp Image Editor (it's free) and import the PDF file. You can then flip the image either vertically or horizontally.

[satdaveuk]

Gimp image editor

Download the Gimp Image Editor (it's free) and import the PDF file. You can then flip the image either vertically or horizontally.

Many thanks its so easy to use, quite powerful considering its only small download and free.

Warm Regards

Dave

[08llyj]

bf 245 c

I MAKE MY TGSL EDUARDO1979 AND I DON T NO HOW PUT THE 2 BF 245 C ON THE PCB.
WHERE IS THE E-B-C
THANKS FOR ALL GUY

[eduardo1979]

Tgsl Edu

Look at that! The BF 245 no E, B, C. The pins are: G, S, D.

[eduardo1979]

BF245C

http://cgi.ebay.es/20x-BF245C-SFET-N...item4aaa932dad

[08llyj]

bf 245c

THKS FOR ALL EDUARDO

[Dennis the Mennis]

I also disc out iron in all disc pot settings.At min it makes cracks and chatters
I usually test with foil from this:http://www.balcan.net/files/images/orbit.jpg
I can disc out it at half of disc pot setting

When it is discriminated i get 30-35cm for my coins. I will try to find euro coin soon...

On equestion for you Dennis: How noch function is working? Can you disc pultabs and at same time detect Cu+Nickel alloy coins?

Hi Habitbraker ,

I think my Disc function is working finally, still experimenting with it to be sure ...

I haven't tried the notch function that much because I think it doesn't work at the moment.

I recently discovered some defective parts on my pcb causing a not working Disc function for a long so I didn't spend that much time on the Disc ...

Now I can Disc out a piece of chewing gum foil and still detect a coin at the same time.


kind regards ,

Dennis the Mennis

[Dennis the Mennis]

Hi DtM!

3. I would like to see some more graphs of your LF353 output at pin 1 (compared to TX signal on other trace) for different values of C9. What value of C9 makes the ringing completely disappear? Maybe go down to 50pf, 40pf, 30pf, etc.

Actually, it looked pretty good at 68pf from your graphs, I would choose that value to keep maybe. It would be interesting to see your sync pulse at max and min DISC pot setting with C9 = 68pf.

Cheers,

-SB

I've did a small test with different C9 values but is seems that within the range of 60 - 90 pF you the 'best' Disc signal/ shape output LM393 pin 1 ( varying of course from pcb to pcb ).


This a picture with 68pF for C9 : Output pin1 LF353 vs output pin1 LM393 DISC signal with Disc pot at minimum / 0% .
Still a little spike, only at the minimum of the disc potmeter



This 80 pF has also the same spike only at the minimum setting for the Disc pot
Only the complete signal at the output LF353 increases.




A 100 pF for C9 gives my pcb the best cards in terms of a Disc signal without any spikes over the complete range of the Disc potmeter ...



122 pF gives spikes again even at 50% of the Disc potmeter

0% :



50% :



and 168 pF : the ringing somewhat disappears



As said before : this part of the circuit is pretty forgiving and if someone has problems with the spikes a different value for C9 mightbe considered .


Kind regards ,

Dennis the Mennis

[satdaveuk]

foil

Hi Habitbraker ,

I think my Disc function is working finally, still experimenting with it to be sure ...

I haven't tried the notch function that much because I think it doesn't work at the moment.

I recently discovered some defective parts on my pcb causing a not working Disc function for a long so I didn't spend that much time on the Disc ...

Now I can Disc out a piece of chewing gum foil and still detect a coin at the same time.


kind regards ,

Dennis the Mennis

Trouble is Dennis, if we disc out foil here in england, we loose are old sixpence which is 65% silver, also you and us would miss out on small silver rings etc, so I would advise dig all foil, no matter where in the world you live
My opinion of course
Regards
Dave

[habitbraker]

Hi Habitbraker ,

I think my Disc function is working finally, still experimenting with it to be sure ...

I haven't tried the notch function that much because I think it doesn't work at the moment.

I recently discovered some defective parts on my pcb causing a not working Disc function for a long so I didn't spend that much time on the Disc ...

Now I can Disc out a piece of chewing gum foil and still detect a coin at the same time.


kind regards ,

Dennis the Mennis

Hello Dennis!
Glad to hear your disc is working . Im considering to make TGS original so I wish to know about noch. I hope you will get it working

Thanks for all the scope images and results of experiments - its very helpful.
I got spikes too. But say - is your disc becaming worse with spikes? Is there any reason of getting rid of them?

[simonbaker]

I've did a small test with different C9 values but is seems that within the range of 60 - 90 pF you the 'best' Disc signal/ shape output LM393 pin 1 ( varying of course from pcb to pcb ).


This a picture with 68pF for C9 : Output pin1 LF353 vs output pin1 LM393 DISC signal with Disc pot at minimum / 0% .
Still a little spike, only at the minimum of the disc potmeter

[ATTACH]15376[/ATTACH]

This 80 pF has also the same spike only at the minimum setting for the Disc pot
Only the complete signal at the output LF353 increases.

[ATTACH]15377[/ATTACH]


A 100 pF for C9 gives my pcb the best cards in terms of a Disc signal without any spikes over the complete range of the Disc potmeter ...

[ATTACH]15378[/ATTACH]

122 pF gives spikes again even at 50% of the Disc potmeter

0% :

[ATTACH]15379[/ATTACH]

50% :

[ATTACH]15380[/ATTACH]

and 168 pF : the ringing somewhat disappears

[ATTACH]15381[/ATTACH]

As said before : this part of the circuit is pretty forgiving and if someone has problems with the spikes a different value for C9 mightbe considered .


Kind regards ,

Dennis the Mennis

Hi DtM - great pics -- raises some interesting questions!

I assume the red traces are the output of LF353 pin1. When I look at the voltage scale, it looks like the signal is approximately 100 mV p-p. Is that correct????? If so, something is really wrong! The output of LF353 pin1 should be 10 volts peak-to-peak at least!

Would you double-check that? Maybe you measured a different point?

Anyway, the sync pulses look good shape, which is what matters. But for good stability, you want a healthy input, so tell us what is happening with the LF353 pin 1 -- something is strange there.

Also, looking at the graphs of the LF353 pin 1, I see many zero crossings that I would expect to make spikes in the sync pulse, so I'm wondering if you probed the correct point? Let us know!

Best regards,

-SB

[Dennis the Mennis]

Hi DtM - great pics -- raises some interesting questions!

I assume the red traces are the output of LF353 pin1. When I look at the voltage scale, it looks like the signal is approximately 100 mV p-p. Is that correct????? If so, something is really wrong! The output of LF353 pin1 should be 10 volts peak-to-peak at least!

Would you double-check that? Maybe you measured a different point?

I did and you were right ( of course ) , I messed up LF 353 pin1 and pin2 , the other side of the 100K ...
Normally it is pretty late when I post something ... must have been sleepy, my workshop noise usually becomes less after 00:30 hr , don't know why.

Anyway, the sync pulses look good shape, which is what matters. But for good stability, you want a healthy input, so tell us what is happening with the LF353 pin 1 -- something is strange there.

Also, looking at the graphs of the LF353 pin 1, I see many zero crossings that I would expect to make spikes in the sync pulse, so I'm wondering if you probed the correct point? Let us know!

Best regards,

-SB

Hi Simon ,
Thanks for your reply ,
To be sure no one gets confused I've made some graphs again of :

- pin 1 vs pin 2 of the LF353 and
- pin 1 LF353 vs LM393 pin 1 (Disc Sync Pulse / all these examples at 0% of disc pot)

for 51 , 68 , 80 , 100 , 122 and 168 pF .

51 pF :



68 pF :



80 pF :



100 pF :



122 pF : ( from 0% -40% of disc pot the spike remains )




168 pF :



In my case it is impossible to make a 'perfect sinus' ...

But as said before : the secret of the Disc Sync spikes is revealed ...

Trouble is Dennis, if we disc out foil here in england, we loose are old sixpence which is 65% silver, also you and us would miss out on small silver rings etc, so I would advise dig all foil, no matter where in the world you live
My opinion of course
Regards
Dave

I probably will also work in All Metal Mode , but just wanted to have good working pcb just in case ...Thanks for the reminder ( I'm just a rookie )

Hello Dennis!
Glad to hear your disc is working . Im considering to make TGS original so I wish to know about noch. I hope you will get it working

Thanks for all the scope images and results of experiments - its very helpful.
I got spikes too. But say - is your disc becaming worse with spikes? Is there any reason of getting rid of them?

Stay with us and I will let you know if I get it working ( ever ).
I'm glad it helped you ... We'll get to the bottom of the TGS(L) !!

I must say I didn't experiment enough with the DISC function yet , I wanted to collect the materials which should DISC OUT according a picture I saw of an original TGS : Pulltab ( the new pulltabs are much smaller as the ones which amputate your feet when you step on it ) , Foil ( like you posted but I didn't find the baklava yet here ) , Nickel ( as the alloy or like the coin ? ) and the S.Cap which I don't understand but I think a cap from a beer- or soda bottle .

Perhaps when the spikes are at the end or the beginning of your DISC SYNC you could miss a tiny bit (?), I think the most important is if the DISC SYNC starts at the right point.
So enough questions left

kind regards ,

Dennis the Mennis

[simonbaker]

Hi Simon ,
Thanks for your reply ,
To be sure no one gets confused I've made some graphs again of :

- pin 1 vs pin 2 of the LF353 and
- pin 1 LF353 vs LM393 pin 1 (Disc Sync Pulse / all these examples at 0% of disc pot)

for 51 , 68 , 80 , 100 , 122 and 168 pF .

51 pF :

[ATTACH]15411[/ATTACH]

68 pF :

[ATTACH]15412[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]15413[/ATTACH]

80 pF :

[ATTACH]15414[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]15415[/ATTACH]

100 pF :

[ATTACH]15416[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]15417[/ATTACH]

122 pF : ( from 0% -40% of disc pot the spike remains )


[ATTACH]15418[/ATTACH]

168 pF :

[ATTACH]15419[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]15420[/ATTACH]

In my case it is impossible to make a 'perfect sinus' ...

But as said before : the secret of the Disc Sync spikes is revealed ...



I probably will also work in All Metal Mode , but just wanted to have good working pcb just in case ...Thanks for the reminder ( I'm just a rookie )



Stay with us and I will let you know if I get it working ( ever ).
I'm glad it helped you ... We'll get to the bottom of the TGS(L) !!

I must say I didn't experiment enough with the DISC function yet , I wanted to collect the materials which should DISC OUT according a picture I saw of an original TGS : Pulltab ( the new pulltabs are much smaller as the ones which amputate your feet when you step on it ) , Foil ( like you posted but I didn't find the baklava yet here ) , Nickel ( as the alloy or like the coin ? ) and the S.Cap which I don't understand but I think a cap from a beer- or soda bottle .

Perhaps when the spikes are at the end or the beginning of your DISC SYNC you could miss a tiny bit (?), I think the most important is if the DISC SYNC starts at the right point.
So enough questions left

kind regards ,

Dennis the Mennis

Thanks DtM, I can sleep at night again...

Your (actual) LF353 pin 1 looks pretty normal, and those little spikes on the sync pulse usually don't cause a problem (even though I don't like them and made some mods to get rid of them).

I've never seen a graph of LF353 pin 2 before, so... interesting! But generally we don't care what it looks like, if pin 1 looks pretty good. However, it might be useful someday to compare our pin 2's. Because it is a "virtual ground" according to op amp theory, it is hard to interpret (for me).

Anyway, I would think your DISC mode should work OK -- if your sync pulse phase range (min to max) is normal compared to TX signal phase. It looked roughly OK to me, but we can check some more.

I think you already checked this, but it is useful to check the voltage on C15 as the DISC pot is turned from min to max. It should not go below -.5 volts, otherwise could be a problem.

If you have trouble obtaining a US Nickel coin, let me know. I find that coin the easiest to check the discrimination. Maybe dfbowers and others can check where a US Nickel discriminates (what pot setting). I'll check when I get a chance.

Regards,

-SB

[Dennis the Mennis]

Noise under field conditions

The question what should be a 'normal' noise level for TGS kept haunting me so I took my stuff and went to my testing ground in the middle of the meadows just outside of my city.
No sheep this time ...

Here's a graph measured on the outputs of the LM308's .

Normally I've only measured the noise on one of the outputs just because I can clip my probe easy on it and in the assumption that the noise level would be the same on both outputs .... not .
I've never expected such a difference between both channel .


Noise on the outputs of the LM308's with a shielded coil in AM mode:


Green for the output of the GB channel and Red for AM/ DISC channel




Noise on the outputs of the LM308's with a shielded coil in DISC mode:

Green for the output of the GB channel and Red for AM/ DISC channel



Now I for sure that :

-The noise level should be very low , 5 -10 mV in the field , but I never achieved this in my workshop which is usualy somewhere between 25/30 mV till skyhigh , with even spikes running trough and really unpredictable.

- My pcb doesn't generate any noise

But why such big difference between the two channels , something must have damaged on my pcb during the trip .

I've switched the LM308's but the problem remained on the same place

Back to workbanch for further investigations ...

This must also explain why some of us suffer from cracks , hums and fals alarms in 'rest' position( due to excessive noise : I think the treshold before alarming is around the 40 mV )

To be continued

Kind regards ,

Dennis the Mennis