TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Zero one]

Help me

At the first, excuse me for a orphography, beacouse i am from Ukraine and don't understand English language very much, maybe somebody now one-side layout to Tesoro Silver Sabre Plus??? Please write to me link from web...

[Unregistered]

Help

What program i can use to open this file (.dxf format)??? And were i can download

[Unregistered]

Thank you!!!

Дуже дякую за схеми! Thank you for help me!!!

[Max]

What program i can use to open this file (.dxf format)??? And were i can download

Hi,
you can use irfanview , but have to download the right plugin... look here:

http://www.irfanview.com/

Kind regards,
Max

[DIRCEU]

Hi,m
self oscillations are great part related to comparators there...

do you use 1Mohm resistor mod there ?

If so... and you have often instability so selfoscillations... disconnect it and leave as original.

This mod of 1Mohm is good on already stabilized/stable MDs... not if there's already instability.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi MAX!


I am working in my TGS again.
The sound level is very good but I have problem with noise erratic discharges.
I changed all BF 245C by TIS 75 and all others components are originals.
It run at 13.77 KHz. Coils 28 DD Rx 7.4 mH an Tx 6.7mH.
GEB act but the noise persist.
With scope (kenwood dual trace 20mHz) I checked many points, but the signal noise are in every where.
When the coils are perfectly nulled the noise is there (audio) when nulled out it is there too (scope probe only. No audio).

The question is: where the noise is generate if is in all points??
I suspect which the problem is arround of 2N2907 and 2N2222; CD4024 or negative switching power suply.
I don't know. May be the best solution for it is to build other PCB.

MAX ! if you want help me ...very good. If no... I understand. The time is short for me too.

Thanks in advance.

DIRCEU

[Unregistered]

Coil cables

Hi,

I am currently building TGS and have question on cable. I see wiring (Ivconic) showing 3 conductor sheilded cable. But the third conductor is attached to ground/sheild. Can I just use 2 conductor sheilded cable and attach the sheild to RX return?

Also which coil in DD should be closer to target (underneth the other coil) TX or RX?

Thanks,

Molzar

[Fred]

Hi,

I am currently building TGS and have question on cable. I see wiring (Ivconic) showing 3 conductor sheilded cable. But the third conductor is attached to ground/sheild. Can I just use 2 conductor sheilded cable and attach the sheild to RX return?

Also which coil in DD should be closer to target (underneth the other coil) TX or RX?

Thanks,

Molzar

Hi,
I am no specialist of TGS, but:
-No , you should really use 3 cables.
-The RX coil should be the closer to ground, but that make almost no diference ...

Regards,
fred.

[Max]

Hi MAX!


I am working in my TGS again.
The sound level is very good but I have problem with noise erratic discharges.
I changed all BF 245C by TIS 75 and all others components are originals.
It run at 13.77 KHz. Coils 28 DD Rx 7.4 mH an Tx 6.7mH.
GEB act but the noise persist.
With scope (kenwood dual trace 20mHz) I checked many points, but the signal noise are in every where.
When the coils are perfectly nulled the noise is there (audio) when nulled out it is there too (scope probe only. No audio).

The question is: where the noise is generate if is in all points??
I suspect which the problem is arround of 2N2907 and 2N2222; CD4024 or negative switching power suply.
I don't know. May be the best solution for it is to build other PCB.

MAX ! if you want help me ...very good. If no... I understand. The time is short for me too.

Thanks in advance.

DIRCEU

Hi Dirceu,
the noise is from different parts but expecially from fets commutation at sincronous demodulator. That doesn't depends of fet kind... and change few if you use TIS75 or BF245 or other kind: commutations are always there and can create enough noise to propagate by tracks.

I suppose you use original board with notch section (same of dutch project in zip file at page1): this worked ok for me but sometimes I can see erratic too and probably components aid the noise transportations like some kind of mylar caps I've used.

I saw that PaulPanzer made instead a big ground plane on his TGS project board (this is the german group) : this could solve some of these problems avoiding too much crosstalks between pcb tracks.

I made also the TGS-light using Vladimir design and got similar problems you report ... noise due to crosstalks... but this is not cause Vladimir made it wrong: the board is really cool and small but is the absence of groundplane that make things appear more bad that you can expect.

I'm sure that if I add a big groundplane to TGS-light board I will eliminate big part of noise from circuit! But sure I have no time for this... at least at now.

Your frequency is too low: you need something around 14.5Khz... some hundred Hz more is better for me... at least on my detectors.

I will also check very well the TL op amps if any or the LM308s (I posted months ago that I've purchased ****erfeit parts sold me as original lm308 that aren't original... and maybe relabeled common op amps , very noise indeed).

The crazy noise is sometimes also product of the last 2 comparators... you can balance adding some inertia to their inputs (like 1-4.7nF ceramic caps) but do this just if you notice problem is there. Also... 100nF caps on supply rail of critical op amps and comparators could give advantages on stability.

Problem is that the TGS tweaking is really complex stuff and each built clone is different from the others for obvious reasons (components, soldering, PCB manifacturing, cleaning strategy, coil assembly used etc etc) so just the owner can find ultimate solution... and we can just exchange hints and tips but you will actually made it better then.

Best regards,
Max

[DIRCEU]

Hi Dirceu,
the noise is from different parts but expecially from fets commutation at sincronous demodulator. That doesn't depends of fet kind... and change few if you use TIS75 or BF245 or other kind: commutations are always there and can create enough noise to propagate by tracks.

I suppose you use original board with notch section (same of dutch project in zip file at page1): this worked ok for me but sometimes I can see erratic too and probably components aid the noise transportations like some kind of mylar caps I've used.

I saw that PaulPanzer made instead a big ground plane on his TGS project board (this is the german group) : this could solve some of these problems avoiding too much crosstalks between pcb tracks.

I made also the TGS-light using Vladimir design and got similar problems you report ... noise due to crosstalks... but this is not cause Vladimir made it wrong: the board is really cool and small but is the absence of groundplane that make things appear more bad that you can expect.

I'm sure that if I add a big groundplane to TGS-light board I will eliminate big part of noise from circuit! But sure I have no time for this... at least at now.

Your frequency is too low: you need something around 14.5Khz... some hundred Hz more is better for me... at least on my detectors.

I will also check very well the TL op amps if any or the LM308s (I posted months ago that I've purchased ****erfeit parts sold me as original lm308 that aren't original... and maybe relabeled common op amps , very noise indeed).

The crazy noise is sometimes also product of the last 2 comparators... you can balance adding some inertia to their inputs (like 1-4.7nF ceramic caps) but do this just if you notice problem is there. Also... 100nF caps on supply rail of critical op amps and comparators could give advantages on stability.

Problem is that the TGS tweaking is really complex stuff and each built clone is different from the others for obvious reasons (components, soldering, PCB manifacturing, cleaning strategy, coil assembly used etc etc) so just the owner can find ultimate solution... and we can just exchange hints and tips but you will actually made it better then.

Best regards,
Max

Many thanks MAX.

I agree at all.
I'm was thinking in to minimize this problems with separation cages like at HF devices for example: TV tunners.
Is very important for me to partake this forum, because I have learned much more than others sources.

Thanks again! MAX.

Regards

DIRCEU.

[nelson]

Hi tltak.
Did you solve the coil resistance problems, cause i had the same?
My best coil uses less turns and have btw 15 and 17 ohms
I had tryied 3 more coils using the same turns, wire gauge, diameter, and nothing., very bad performance. This was made last year, so by now i m using my first coil, with a performance of 22 cms for a 1.6 cms coin.
If you have any succsess please share your expirence.
I also had measure inductance and resistance with diferent instruments, showing me thar resistance are on the same range, but inductances are diferent.
Regards
Nelson

Ivconic,
I now that your data are acurate!!!
I dont have doubts in you but my resistance is aweys higher then yours.
We are using the same number of turns and the same wire!
I ask you because you have experiance!
What battery did you use to suply the circuit?
As you can see I have problems with this.
Thanks

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Nelson.
I am awso curies to here the others upinion to the question.
But according to me there are too many different aloys and standarts for wire d accordind the needs it is produced for.
What is this coin and this are air tests right?We talk about GROUND!And even better we should talk about havy infested with pottery,iron and colour pieces and etc. then even best detectors start siging like caralarms!When we add wet WOW.
But on the subject:
If you can mach Inductance,resistance........there will be no need of PRODUCERS so its obvious that there is some small secret that is in shadow until now.
But dont make atentions for all this datas.I need also best coil,but neve have measured Inductance.I trust Ivconic and Max here and just make same numbers of turns!
Why you think that not equaly same resistance is probleme here?This is homemade unit!Later when you null coil you can compensate almos everything.What is your performance?Why you think you have a probleme?Is there noises?..........
Have to go now ...see you soon.
My TGS is the best unit I have ever worked with!Did you worked with other units?Have you buy any detector!?

[zzy]

help!

MAX,
I test the TGS at home,very good.This afternoon i assemble the TGS and test it at outdoor.I found a big problem. When i move the coil up and down, it'll beeps.I turn it to disc mode,it beeps too! I put the coil on the ground,then i move a coin above the coil,no problem.very deep.
who knows what causes it beeps? please help.

[strujas]

Your ground balance is no good, you must to retune trim.pot. for ground and phase.

[Max]

MAX,
I test the TGS at home,very good.This afternoon i assemble the TGS and test it at outdoor.I found a big problem. When i move the coil up and down, it'll beeps.I turn it to disc mode,it beeps too! I put the coil on the ground,then i move a coin above the coil,no problem.very deep.
who knows what causes it beeps? please help.

Hi,
try with a 10turns pot instead of geb trimmer... and use it to balance detector on soil. You will find a spot with good tuning when up-down it you'll get no sound.

Depending on soil and on speed/height you perform the tuning you will have problems... so download bandidoII manual to read about correct way to make this nulling on MD.

PS: if you haven't a 10turns pot... use a common one... but will be more difficault setting it well. Also you can try nulling with trimmer (better is you use a multiturn geb trimmer in that case) and try to null a ferrite rod at few (2-3cm) from center of coil. Right balance happens when you can almost null ferrite stuff (little toroids are good too but must be ferrite not iron power kind) and then detect still the silver stuff.

Kind regards,
Max

[zzy]

another question

Hi MAX

Thanks for your reply,I retune the GBE trim pot ,when my TGS reject ferrite rod, i found that my detection deepth from 28CM short to 15cm.Very short ,what shoud i do?
I add a 3.3nf cap to RX 15nf cap,very good deepth,but the ground balance is not work. what's the problem?